Hurricane Sandy

What percentage of coastline and riverfront is safer? Do you want no construction within however-many feet of sea level?

 

I dont know....but Scientists certainly know. Simply seek their guidance when determining public policy , land use zoning and infrastructure investment.

 

Staten Island is a working-class neighborhood, mostly. And it got hit hard...

What I consider misguided is trying to turn this into a class warfare issue.

Many local governments in the US already have a policy of refusing to issue permits for people to rebuild in particularly dangerous areas, after a disaster. And along the east coast, we're starting to see them buy up damaged waterfront properties instead, and return them to a natural state or make parks out of them -- thereby creating a buffer zone.

I expect to see that trend continue and accelerate.

 

There is no safe place to build. Every square foot of this country is subject to some sort of natural threat: hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, fires, landslides....

We can do what I mentioned above, and weed out the most dangerous places as they get hit. We can also improve building codes, and limit development where there's a major conflict with natural forces. But you can't herd the entire population off the eastern shoreline and onto some sort of ultra-safe reservation vetted by scientists, where everyone will be out of harm's way and won't cost FEMA a dime. No such place exists.

And it certainly isn't realistic to talk about eradicating the City of New York and its suburbs, any more than it's realistic to talk about eradicating Holland.

 

Do the math Troy...sea level rise two millimeter every year.

You can excuse public policy for allowing Staten Islan to be built because we didnt have the unerstanding of science. Now we do.

Re Building artificial settlements on the east coast barrier islands is foolhardy and will only increase the 14 trillion dollar debt.

 

This paper deals with the public policy approach in one of our low lying counties on the Bay:

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/dnrnews/pdfs/Dorchester.pdf

I know I know.. I have posted the same paper four times over the last few years in several of these threads..

The Chesapeake Bay basin in a unique case as several well understood factors are causing sea level rise here.
The earths mantle is still rebounding over the region and water table draw downs are causing more problems here than in some other regions which are effected by sea level rise alone.
The record on the bay goes back to Colonial times when land holders argued with the king of England over tax dept owed on land which had been taken by the 'rising' bay waters.

A photo study of south Dorchester county via google earth is of interest.
The scars of the battle for existing land and mans use of it is clear.

The land plainly shows historic bulwark posts long submerged which mark a defended shore line of perhaps hundreds of years in the past. Extensive drainage ditches are visible crossing land which is gradually being submerged, and abandoned agricultural land is shown as it is being consumed by a march from arable land, to high marsh then fully tidal wetland.

In whole, the landscape reveals something of a battle ground. As the enemy advances fortifications are thrown up, and the inevitable retreat clear as the front advances..


From this view alone it is easy to imagine the effort and cost of this protracted battle.
I suppose one can accurately surmise that the cost born is taken by the land owners as a known factor in trying to utilize marginal land, and some realized profit must be assumed at least in the short term.
I believe the public and private agreement over this endeavor must be debated. In the above paper the author states that county resources should be extended with care when deciding to raise road beds at a greater cost than the private properties they service as sea level rises.

The high development on these barrier islands reflect a similar struggle with even less certainty.
In the bay region, land is subsiding and the saline water gradually invades low lying regions. On barrier islands, the seas rise natural induces a shoreward migration of the islands thin ribbon of land.
Extensive seaside rental properties can be viewed as a field sown for profit on marginal land. This private endeavor is taken at known risk and against known profits in the short term.
Public monies should be similarly extended with care in support of this activity as they should have been made in building rough roads to marsh land which owners set to produce.

 

Sure its a completely sensible, logical document outlining the challenges that are known to lie ahead. The problem is how to develop the awareness, the will and the political leadership to implement the proposal.

When I read the document I am reminded of similar documents that were written 40 years ago !
Take three steps back , think, and then you will understand my BEEF with the media and its coverage of hurricane Sandy. The issues concerning sustainable development are not front page. ..lack of gasoline , trajic personal stories and cancelled marathons are.

 

Carnival Miracle generally sails 8-day cruises out of New York City. Because the port was closed down on Sunday night Carnival chose to move its scheduled departure to the last minute so the ship could leave. About 1,800 guests did manage to get aboard before the ship set sail, according the company spokesperson Vance Gullicksen. The itinerary added a day and the nine-night schedule is below:

Sun New York, NY Departure: 5:00 PM
Mon Fun Day @ Sea
Tue Fun Day @ Sea
Wed Port Canaveral, FL Arrival: 7:00 AM

.... The strategy was to get out of town long before the storm hit and most likely sail due East to avoid Sandy.​

My question: If Bounty preferred to ride out the storm at sea, why did Bounty sail south instead of sailing east like Carnival Miracle?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...s-sinking-captain-had-spoken-about-hurricanes
(This may be similar to what Michael posted at #182)

[Going east is what the Andrea Gale should have done when confronted with The Perfect Storm. They should have sailed to Iceland and probably sold at least some of their catch there.]

 

This is what I witnessed in Marblehead Harbor during The Perfect Storm. Marblehead Harbor is protected from most sides, but open to the northeast. It's a crowded harbor. The issue wasn't anchors - the issue was boats breaking off their moorings at the mouth of the harbor and being swept directly down its length, so each boat that let go would take a couple others with it.

On another subject, there's some nice fallen wood around here. (Photo is of oak felled by Hurricane Sandy in Van Cortlandt Park, Bronx, NY. I also know where there's a large maple.) Any suggestions?

 

Look for someone with a swing saw mill or a band saw mill to cut it up for you, if you can get the right to the tree. Lucas mills and wood mizer bandsaw mills are 2 names that come to mind. I've used a man with a Lucas mill on my place to saw up trees that were in the way of my proposed new barn.

PDW

 

Hard to find someone who wants the timber . A few years ago, on a piece of family property on the East Coast, we had to remove some old growth trees that were invading the structure of the house and a retaining wall. In the region you are not allowed to cut down trees without permission. A forestry official was called, he surveyed the trees, granted permission, then commented that one of the trees, a huge white oak , was a beautiful healthy ,specimen. Not wanting this beautiful white oak to be turned into firewood I asked the foresty official for advice and he gave me a few numbers. None of the sawyers,lumbermen I called needed the tree...said they had plenty of white oak. It got turned into firewood.

 

With infrastructure down, along with the trees, households with fireplaces will be able to stay warm, starting with dead branches first and moving to green limbs as they dry. For those whose houses are destroyed it is time to revive old camping skills until they can find adequate shelter.

 

Yes leave it alone --it is not yours,--- taking it is stealing. Health and safety regulation would deem it dangerous to be near and noise pollution of the saw would be illegal if you had an operators licence. Taking your vehicle to it would be trespassing and selling it would be handling stolen goods.

 

Actually, you're not even close to being accurate, in regard to that tree Frosty. Once a tree is down, it's not a tree any more. A land owner would likely pay you to remove it and you don't need a license to operate a chain saw.

The reasonable choice and one I've done more then once after a tree has come down, is to drag a portable mill to the site and cut it up into nice slabs. Once an owner sees you with a mill, they'll usually offer you the tree for it's removal, if not some cash too. I know a fellow with a mill (one I borrow regularly) and he makes a reasonable bit during the summer after storms. The law usually reads "reasonable care", which simply means if you no brain yourself into a hole, you're screwed, but if you exercise rational practices, you're good to go.

As to Bounty, I mentioned a northeast course as my preferred route, had I been her skipper at the beginning of this thread. I do understand the logic he used and given an extra day's lead time, would have been something, I would have also strongly considered. He knew the probable course would have Sandy turning on him, just as he scooted to it's west. This and given his schedule would have had me head northeast, not south, but again, with one more day lead time, he could have scooted by, while she was still reassembling after passing through the Bahamas.

 

Windthrown timber is Sweden is usually used for pulp and not for sawing planks. The reason being that the timber tends to be internally damaged when windthrown. This might not apply to uprooted trees.

The ownership of windthrown timber shouldn't be difficult to negotiate. The value is low and the cost to take care of the timber often exceeds the value, at least where I live.

Btw, do you really have regulations (licenses etc.) for using chain saws in the US?

Erik