Human Powered Boat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by SolomonGrundy, Feb 12, 2005.

  1. Skippy
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    Skippy Senior Member

    The quote is from Theodore Roosevelt.
     
  2. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Up to a point. Extra length can create more drag in two ways.

    1.) When the extra length increases wetted area usually increases as well.

    2.) As the water moves along a long surface, it gets more and more turbulant. Nothing compared to wave making, of course, but definitely noticeable in a very slow, under powered boat such as the one we're discusing here. One which won't go fast enough to make many waves anyway.

    Since we're already talking at least 25ft in WL for essentially a 2kt boat, I can't see how much more is going to help.

    Bob
     
  3. andystev
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    andystev New Member

    Absolutely fascinating stuff! My interest lies with radio sailing, so I’ve stumbled across this forum almost by accident, but as a former long distance cyclist & an avidly keen HPV fan as well as an interest in all things boats (albeit on a somewhat smaller scale) I can’t help but throw my 2p in.

    Admittedly I may have missed a few posts having skimmed through the thread fairly quickly, but two points have struck me.

    http://microship.com/ Take a look at the microship, not quite the same goals but if memory serves a fair amount of development has gone into a pedal/prop system.

    Steering: The talk of hand cranks or similar to augment the pedal power concerns me somewhat. If both feet & hands are dedicated to power, how are you going to keep the thing pointing in the right direction while being tossed about in 15’ seas?
     
  4. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    2 pence is a bit more than 2 cents. But re: hand cranks...what about a foot-only propulsion system using a joystick (of sorts) to turn a rudder?
     
  5. andystev
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    andystev New Member

    Indeed, I’ve always like the steering system used by the Windcheetah recumbent trike http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/ single handed operation of the steering in a relatively simple design. Leaves a hand free for other essentials, like eating & drinking on the fly.

    I would think that with so little power available it all aught to be used to propel the boat in the right direction, so a close eye on the compass & a firm hand on the wheel/tiller/joystick/handlebars would be high on the priority list. Not at all easy to do if your hands are already busy providing propulsion.
     
  6. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    For certain...but, perhaps, some sort of chin joystick (as used by paraplegics) could be used? Maybe this could add the ability to use hand propulsion as well, but I think something along the lines of the recumbent bike joystick or the nauticraft (pedal boats) joystick could work.
     
  7. Sean Herron
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    Sean Herron Senior Member

    Andy has a point...

    Hello...

    Now that we are back to a surface boat - this Andy' has a very strong point - you will need on occasion to crack a can of beans or rehydrate some dehydrated miracle food while pumping those pedals - and we have opposable thumbs for this sort of thing - so how to free up both hands...

    THANKS ANDY - always prefer to focus on finite points of mechanics and engineering vs. Jules Verne alternatives - KUDOS...

    What crossed my somewhat crossed mind - this and me leaning to and fro in my bankers chair here - is the old Wilbur Wright wing warp bit...

    How about some torso brace or shoulder sliding NASCAR type thingee on the chair - can still pump the legs - no turning of your body axis - small movements can be mechanically advantaged to the rudder linkage which could also be sprung to self zero - which might just keep your head up when you pass out too...:)

    May I also strongly suggest you design some sort of lower and upper back 'massage thingee' into the propulsion system - your legs only have power if your gut muscles are tight and your back is strong in a semi reclined position - thats why I gave up my Olympic Finn - OH YEAH - for a ballasted keel boat...:)

    Also - heat and persperation accumulation and fair weather ventilation - demisters on the glass - or a manual wiper like older fishing boats - perhaps a spinner glass on a morse cable - my mind wonders and wanders...

    Hell - catheter bags and number twos in heavy seas - NOW THERE IS A TECH. PROBLEM - OH WAIT - a poop trough and an Andersen bailer on another Morse cable - my oh my - a high tech Roman toilet on your HPV...:)

    Holy crap...

    LOTS OF SKIN GLUE - I am serious - shaving your face - YOU NEED SOLAR - RADAR needs lots of amps - 3rd party proximity warning on RADARS so you can sleep - EPIRB's at night so you can sleep - morphine and needles and proper papers to carry same - quick cast plaster and splints - hell - I would be inclined to research Motocross suits and armour - might save your bones...

    Sodium and Lithium - get in touch with long distance trainers - pick their brains - they may have sponsor info. on food bars and 'miracle' foods...

    OK here http://www.mn1903flyer.us ...

    As always - cheers - and NO I do not know anyone who would sponsor or promote this bit - but you have this thread to point them to - lots of research has gone into your project here - lots of prescedent studies - it can be done - NO QUESTION - I will post drawings of an Atlantic rowboat when I sober up a bit...

    SH.
     

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  8. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    Not so fast!! Check out http://www.gizmag.com/go/3771/
    A web site that Yipster pointed out in another thread. The human powered submersible looks like it could do well on the surface, too.

    Attached is a picture from the web site
    , Gizmag.
     

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  9. lesval
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    lesval New Member

    Pedal Propulsion

    I seem to recall a brilliant engineer in the Canadian Gulf islands creating a very efficient pedal to prop assembly, maybe called "sea legs" or some derivation of that. Tried a pedal powered canoe in Sydney B.C. that was equipped with the unit. Amazingly superior to rowing/paddling for thrust to effort ratio. They may have been the units used in the Fulmar trimarans.

    They were used on one of the microship projects here in Puget Sound:

    http://microship.com/

    Did a quick google search and came up empty.

    Another resource is a man named Gordon, or Gordy in the Bay Area. He pedalled a 36-37' boat around the Farallon's and beat some serious rowing crews solo. I think his propeller was designed by Lars Bergstrom, it was fairly large and rotated quite slowly.

    Les Valsquier
    www.amiboats.com
     
  10. cyclops
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    cyclops Senior Member

    Thank's for reminding us that a human has the largest muscles in his legs. Arm people never get that point.
     
  11. Sean Herron
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    Sean Herron Senior Member

    Jonathan

    Hello...

    Now that was just 'coolies' - the design and article both - RHYTHM - an oar powered sub - OK - I will give in to the Jules Verne bit - but just a bit - good to let the mind wander some times...

    Very interesting...

    I think I posted below in another thread - or perhaps this one - strange stuff - but intriguing...

    See http://www.midcoast.com/~kittredg/ - this should amuse all ....

    SH.
     

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  12. cyclops
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    cyclops Senior Member

    Sounds great. But not pratical for me. No refrigerator!!
     
  13. SolomonGrundy
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    SolomonGrundy I'm not crazy...

    new hull model

    Here's the new model for the HPV hull. It has been stretched to 20 feet and a 6" "capture ring" has been added inboard of the sheer. Things are a bit crazy here... I'm working on welding some stainless tube for another project ( the kind that pays the bills...) but I hope to get back to the driveline / prop mock-up within a month.
     

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  14. SolomonGrundy
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    SolomonGrundy I'm not crazy...

    nothing?

    So nobody has anything good, bad or indifferent to say about the new hull?

    Or do you need to download a free Rhino trial and would rather not...?
     

  15. SolomonGrundy
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    SolomonGrundy I'm not crazy...

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