How not to drive your NA nuts

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Boston, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    to many cooks in the kitchen syndrome

    most of you know what Im up to
    ok so I've finally picked the boat and finally picked an NA.

    Now given that I've learned just about enough to be dangerous and given that we have a diverse and opinionated group I hope you folks will forgive me if the following stages prior to the actual building process are not open to public debate. Sorry kids but the few and relatively minor changes I plan on making are going to be considered for feasibility and inclusion by one person from here on out.

    I'll begin posting the build once its actually started, which might be sooner than you think cause the changes I'm considering are minor, or at least I think they are.

    sorry for the silence at this stage but its the only way to let my NA do his job efficiently

  2. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,585
    Likes: 43, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 779
    Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA

    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    Sounds like a good way to build a boat. (not talk about it) Looking forward to pics.
    Gary :D
  3. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,862
    Likes: 295, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Good luck. My first NA was given a brief - "A boat like the one at www.######, only longer and a bigger cabin" (26 to 28ft, 1200 kilo trailer sailer)

    Three months later I got a design that looked nothing like I requested, was twice as heavy with a third the performance characteristics of the original.

    I find you have to keep reminding the NA of the brief, the fine points of the design, keep emphasising the extra features - or they just forget over the months and other pressing projects.
  4. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 5,373
    Likes: 247, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 3380
    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Naaah, I think you might have been just unlucky or have agreed too broad design goals. :)

    A serious designer might miss few previously agreed features (design compromises will have to happen, sooner or later...), but it will be him to advice you if and when it happens. And it will be long before the design enters the executive stage. A very experienced NA, the one with a good database of similar existing projects in his drawer, will anticipate the problems of the kind you've mentioned at the very preliminary design stage.
    Nobody likes doing the same job all over again, the second time for free, you know... ;)

    That's, of course, unless you have asked him to add stuff along the way, which happens pretty often in this world.

    I need to point out that this is not intended as a criticism of either your designer's work or your SOR, I am just saying that when overweight designs happen, most of the times they are childern of both parents - the designer and the client. ;)
  5. Willallison
    Joined: Oct 2001
    Posts: 3,590
    Likes: 130, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2369
    Location: Australia

    Willallison Senior Member

    What truly intrigues me is how commonly I encounter a resistance on the clients part to prepare a clear and consistent design brief (SOR). As if, by magic, the designer can conjure up exactly what the client wants by nothing more than telepathic extraction. No - it's not as mjuch fun as drawing pretty sketches of boats, but it IS a very necessary 1st step.
    Of course, preparing an effective SOR should be a joint effort between both designer and client and any designer who proceeds too far along the path before ensuring that the SOR has been finalised and AGREED TO BY BOTH PARTIES is asking for trouble.
    Just as daiquiri did... my disclaimer... no suggestion that this was the case in RW's case... just a general observation....

    Oh - and congrats and good luck B !!
  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    thats funny cause I been trying to create a clear and consistent list of the least number of alterations I can live with
  7. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I hope to choose Tad.
    Look forward to see some pictures.
    Good luck.
  8. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    lets not make a guessing game of it Daniel
    all I know is I was lucky my first pick agreed to the job
    or at least I think he has
    come to think of it I did sorta randomly send him a check
    I'm feeling pretty good that I got the right guy on the job but I think it best not to make the design phase to public and having to much input

    I just fired off about a 12 or 15 sentence list of changes
    2 that I really want
    2 I'd kinda like to see but no big deal if not
    1 might be dreaming

    I can think of another but I'm almost positive its to expensive so I left it out

    but I kept it really simple and asked for an estimate on each group so I can mull it over for a while and then send him the appropriate amount of money to get things rolling

    lets not preasure the guy ok
    it this turns into a who is it thread I'll have to ask Jeff to deal with it accordingly cause I dont want to be any more trouble than I already have been

    time to get professional about this

    sorry Daniel
    no can do my friend
  9. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 1,743
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2078
    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    OK, so why are we even talking about not talking about this stage? If you hadn't mentioned it, we'd have no idea it was happening.:)

    But I hope it goes well; we'll be waiting to see what you and the NA come up with.
  10. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    I was kinda thinking no one would respond once they knew what was up
    I been pretty prolific in my conversation about the build and I kinda figured I give an update every once in a while

    didn't mean to start a who dun it page


  11. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,862
    Likes: 295, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Yes, it can happen that way.

    As it turns out, I have dealt with two NA's in my efforts to get a design done. The first one was just sheer pig-headedness on the part of the first NA, as I have spoken to other disgruntled clients of his since.

    The second has made excellent progress, but need to be kept "freshened up" constantly, as i am sure he has a lot of other distractions.

    In both cases, and itemised, detailed list SOR was provided.

    Like getting an initial sketch with CE and CG showing, but the SOR item
    "Self Tacking" was ignored, and all the calcs had been done with an overlapping foresail.

    The same goes for the specification of a "half metre bowsprit"

    How unambious could that be - but they just didnt register.

    Half the battle is getting the designer really interested in your project, and not just looking at it as another job.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.