How big is a boat?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by JonathanCole, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    U R Very Right

    Unfortunate it may seem:( :( :( ...... I cant disagree about us in Indonesia generally have more boat only:( :( :( ......... We have the most island recorded in THE WORLD but:p .... not enough ship to run it:eek: ..... What a pity......:( :( :( Thats why I am sooooooo........ interested in u sir............:D :D :D ..........
     
  2. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Jonathan my humble appoligies to you and Rx for calling him an idiot!

    He's Not an Idiot only a Yank!:rolleyes:

    There happy now?:rolleyes:

    (with appolligies to any real Americans - you know the Guys I mean :cool: )
     
  3. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

  4. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    These resorts are not floating ones, but from my point of view exemplify the mad career to give the rich secluded and private resorts in spite of enviromental damages and respect for the sea. Gigantic and ambitious touristic projects have proved to be enviromentally harmful once and once again. But we insist...
    http://realestate.theemiratesnetwork.com/developments/dubai/palm_islands.php
    You can even buy your own artificial island at "The World": http://www.nakheel.ae/

    It seems Dubai's ambitious program is severely threatening sea life in huge extensions.
    http://www.bajoelagua.com/articulos/reportajes/1509.htm (In spanish)
    http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0823-tina_butler_dubai.html (English)

    More on artificial islands and floating cities:
    http://www.oceansatlas.com/unatlas/about/oceansofthefuture/background/seemore3.html
    http://www.transtopia.org/island.html
    http://oceania.org/

    A new "Island Project" in the net. An ambitious site but with not content yet...(!)
    http://www.islandproject.org/

    And to end... A Jonathan's concept like? (Although not ocean going)
    http://parole.aporee.org/work/hier.php3?spec_id=12230&words_id=102
    (Kikutate's marine cities projects: http://www.kikutake.co.jp/e/top/top.html)
     
  5. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

     
  6. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

     
  7. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    I quite agree.


    I quite agree again. I wanted six...
     
  8. Vega
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Vega Senior Member

    We have in Europe birth control rates. Our population is not on the rise, quite the contrary, China has also managed to have a grasp on it...and how do you propose to settle the problem in Africa and other poor regions? You give them food and they multiply themselves like rats...stop giving them food and they die by the thousands in inhuman conditions...and what has this to do with mega projects to house in luxury some rich men by the sea (or in the sea)...nothing except that the price it costs per capita would be enough to house with dignity a hundred people.

    I hope you do not talk seriously about that depopulation scenario? That is so wrong that if it comes to that, human race would have no moral right to exist...it would be of Universal interest that some alien and developed species wiped us out of existence:D

    The only way to balance earth and human race will necessarily bring a completely different way of living to the so called developed world. Fact is that we can only live this way because the vast majority of the world population does not (and live on the verge of misery).

    How do you propose to convince people in your own country to live with a lower standard, I mean having less things, to stop buying new and useless things everyday?

    Have you ever picked a consumer good, for example a radio, and ask yourself how the hell that thing could be made at that price?

    That's part of the problem...lots of people working a month by what you earn in some hours make that possible....and do you thing it is going to last?

    Sorry about the rant, but every time I am confronted with the huge depletion of human resources for the exclusive use of a few ...I say to myself - **** this is not going to last (I mean our way of life)...and this is not an agreeable thought.:(

    By the way, some rich Dutch guy is going to build here some mega aquatic project. It will be in Algarve, it will occupy 100ha of sea...and the rooms will have sea underwater views:rolleyes:
     
  9. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    New things are almost always developed for the wealthy people first. That's because when products are first developed they have to be very expensive or else they cannot survive economically. This is nothing new and personally speaking I don't think it is a bad thing. I think it is justice that the rich pay more. What is bad is when the developments ruin the common heritage of the planet like water, air, wildlife, etc. and unnecessarily deplete the resources that will be required for future generations.

    What if, we built things to last long enough to replenish the materials used (such as wood) or to recycle the materials that are not renewable? If you cut down ten trees to make a house, the house must last 150 years to regrow the trees. It's about seeing ourselves embedded in a web of life and material flows rather than a short term perspective. That's the education that is needed.


     
  10. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    It depends on trees and techniques used. With rapidly growing trees, like eucaliptus globulus, you only need 35-40 years to get a new tree with excellent wood quality, as an example. So using renewable resources may not always imply such long terms of "nature pay back"
     
  11. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    150 years???? even the 35-40 years you talk about are for a truly big tree. The commercial time for the cutting of the Eucaliptos (replacement trees) is only 10 years and in some cases, only seven (I hate that tree).
    The Iberia native and more common tree, the Pinheiro Bravo( Pinus pinaster) has a commercial cutting time of 25 years and at 35 it is a really big tree.

    There are a lot of tree species that don't even last close to 150 years.
     
  12. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    You shouldn't hate the eucaliptus. It provides one of the better woods for boatbuilding, when properly treated. Even better that English Oak.
    Originally this tree came from Tasmania, where it is called Blue Gum. 100 years ago the "Blue Gum Clippers" were built in Tasmania almost entirely in Eucaliptus and Huon Pine, being the envy of nations reputed as the best in shipbuilding. Even Lloyd's charged lower insurance fees for those ships.

    There are around 600 varieties of eucaliptus, not all good for boat building. But specifically the Blue Gum (eucaliptus globulus, variety globulus), being the best, is the one we have in Galicia and Portugal in huge numbers.

    The problem is that this tree is farmed here mainly to obtain paper paste and so it is grown in densities of around 1300 individuals per Ha, or more, and then cutted when they are 12 years (or less, as you point). This produces a very poor wood full of growing tensions, that opens readily when the tree is abated.

    But if you grow eucaliptus in densities of around 135 individuals per Ha, let them grow 35-40 years, abate them properly and then saw the logs in the correct pattern, you get one of the better construction woods available. It is heavy (density bigger than 0.9T/m3), flexible (much more than the 'pinheiro bravo', pinus pinaster), hard (this is the only difficulty for working with this wood) and with an extraordinary resistance to rot in sea water (logs of eucaliptus were extensively used for supporting piles in harbour docks and train rail traverses, with periods of replacement sometimes as high as 35 years).

    In Galicia all the boatyards still producing fishing boats in wood (Around 25), use eucaliptus thoroughly for the structure of the boats, with excellent results (if they choose well treated wood, of course). I work for many of them.

    In 2005 I have been a consultant for a traditional Boatbuilding school and we built there an small traditional galician boat (4.5 m), using exclusively eucaliptus. Frames were laminated and hull skin was strip planked with epoxy resin techniques. We got a wonderful wood from a galician house-floors producer. Wonderful grain, no knots, 8% humidity. Result was excellent, although the boat is heavy to its size, as expected.

    In Portugal boatbuilders do not use eucaliptus except for masts, because there is very little knowledge and a lot of prejudices about this wood. I have been working closely with Eng. Oscar Mota of the Portuguese Marine Industries Association, who is involved in a program to educate the boatbuilders there in wood boatbuilding modern techniques. Very knowdledgeable man. He has produced several booklets on this matter and if you are interested in knowing more, I can put you in contact with him.

    I've also written something about all this in 'galego' and if you want so, I can send you a copy (You'll probably understand it quite easily as galego and portuguese are so close).

    Cheers
     
  13. Vega
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Vega Senior Member

    First, some contribution to the thread, mainly some non megalomaniac Aquatic Architecture:

    http://www.inhabitat.com/entry_597.php
    http://www.inhabitat.com/entry_598.php
    http://www.floatinghomes.de/
    http://www.giancarlozema.com/
    http://www.dutchdocklands.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=8&Itemid=3
    http://www.inhabitat.com/entry_599.php
    http://www.dutchdocklands.com/
    http://www.mmh.se/060217/index.html

    and then some rant….:p :p :p

    Cole you are an big optimistic:

    It has been done hundreds of times. What happens is that the “intelligent ones” (normally the guys from the local government) always have a way of stealing in their profit the food and resources that are offered by the International Community and they don’t give a **** to their own people. Corruption is the name of the game…Not an easy problem to solve:rolleyes:

    Fat chance. Politicians will lie and say whatever people want to hear to win an election.:rolleyes:
    If they say that you will have to buy fewer things and change your consumer habits, they will lose all the elections
    .:p

    Say that to the thousands of unemployed of the western world (and the millions that will follow). I believe they will not believe you, when they see all the multinationals, where they used to work, delocalize their production to china and Asia.:mad:


    PS – thanks for the big letters, but there’s no need; I am getting old but I still have a good eyesight:D
     
  14. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Gilly I wish I had your ego, I wouldn't be able to go out (couldn't get my big head through the door) but I wouldn't worry! I wouldn't know what a prat I was! With six offspring you could conquer the world! The majority would commit suicide, you could bore the rest to death!

    Yes a big ego is a tremendous thing!

    unfortunately I am only a poor peasant from what was at one time possibly the greatest nation in the world, who is now destroying itself through a concious desire to give back what we took! What the majority fail to realise is we got the guns first, the others would have pulled the same stunt and would not now be trying to destroy themselves!

    But no, we stand up to agression to others but not ourselves - stupid or what!
     

  15. Vega
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Vega Senior Member

    I knew that it had come from Australia but I didn't know that it was fit for anything except for making paper (thanks for the information). But I still hate the thing...nothing to do with it being useful or not, it is an aesthetical thing and an environmental thing.

    You know, I don't only love the sea, but also the woods and the mountains. Portugal has many forests and the Eucalyptus have been growing in them like a cancer, always in bigger numbers, always uglier. And it is not only me, all the other animals that like and live in the woods stay way from it. An Eucalypts forest is a sad thing. No animals live there, not even birds, and no more plants, bushes or anything else grow there. That tree just sucks the land with such voracity that kills everything that is nearby.

    No, sorry Guillermo, it may be useful, but I still hate the thing.
     
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