Holder20 hull question.

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Canracer, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. Canracer
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Canracer Senior Member

    I've looked at three Holder20's in my local. Every hull has strange looking hollowed sections along the bilge.

    It appears that the boats filled with rain water and were crushed against their trailer bunks. Is this the design of the hull, or are these boats really damaged?
     
  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If it doesn't look look this, you've got big problems:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Canracer
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    Canracer Senior Member

    Imagine the area of that hull, were it rests on the trailer bunks (the underneath.) I can't tell if the hull has "tunnel" sections on the planning surface. It's looks like it cold be damage from the bunks. Is that the design of the hull or is it fiberglass damage?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  4. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    I think the question answers itself. Was the trailor supplied with the boat? It's always a good idea to design a bunk system that is matched to a bulkhead or structurally stiff location in the boat. You can also shape bunks better to the bottom contours or even reinforce that area of the bilges.
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Even if the trailer was supplied with the boat, doesn't mean it was "fitted" properly. If the boat sat on a poorly fitted trailer, the 'glass will adopt a "set" and remember this deformed position permanently. This is very difficult to remove, without a lot of cussing, time and fairing. There's two approaches: the first is to force the hull back into shape with braces, etc. and then heat the hull so the 'glass molecules will take the new set. This is hard to do accurately. You can also brace the hull back into shape and just wait a few months as the hull adopts this new set. The second and most common method is to refair the hull in the areas affected. This means a ton of fairing compound in some, severe cases, but is the faster, more reliable method.

    Fin keel boats on trailer bunks is a stupid idea. The boat should rest on the fin and just have a few supports at the bilge turn to prevent it from flopping over. These setup makes the least impact on the hull and the boat is standing on the structural element that's designed for it. I've seen a lot of boats ruined by trailer bunks.
     
  6. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Yeah, I've got a Rhodes 19 keel boat with a similar situation. I think if access is good in the bilges, force the depression out and add some thickness inside using foam and glass/epoxy unless a small partial bulkhead would work better (hardly a bulkhead at all, but a "sawn frame" that tapers top and bottom to avoid a hard spot). This would save a lot of filler and also provide some strength in that area.
    Then fill and long-board the remaining shallow depression.
    If the problem came from the hull sagging around the keel, it seems moving the bunks is the only long term solution, and possibly enlarging them and curving them fore and aft.
    Every boat is different so any solution will involve a study of that particular boat. A call to the manufacturer is also a good idea, as they will have some experience in that area.
    When I hear that you've seen other Holders with the same problem, I wonder if a dive over the side come Summer would reveal that the weight of the keel hanging free tended to "fix" the problem. If so, the time to repair it would be just after hauling next time after the bottom has had some time to relax back.
     
  7. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    Fix it

    A Holder 20 does NOT have "hollow" bilges- it is designed to plane and the aft half of the bottom should be an almost straight run. They are very lightly built, and can certainly be badly damaged on a trailer with out proper support. If it is "oil canning" on the trailer, it will do it in the water also, just like a worn out Laser or other light boat. It results in a bad depression/hook aft, and is very slow. Holder 20s are getting pretty old now, but are probably worth repairing as they are quite fast and fun. We have a couple local ones that still do well racing. I was a dealer back "when", and we enjoyed sailing them. A particularly fast and memorable one was named "Ears". Think about it :D
    B
     
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  8. Canracer
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    Canracer Senior Member

    Thanks you bruceb. My parents and I are having ice cream and pondering the "Ears" puzzle. :)
     
  9. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    names

    Don't over think it. Say it out loud, like at a club trophy presentation. (it scored pretty often) - Skipper's name, boat type, boat name. Be open minded ;)
    B
     
  10. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    You might not want to ponder over it with your patents, it's more of a girlfriend/wife thing.
     
  11. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    Names

    Correct Sam :cool:, but, of course, they are parents ;)
    On the original question- We used to do "quick and dirty" repairs on old caved in trailer boats by stuffing foam blocks between the cockpit sole or deck and the hull. It doesn't usually take very much to push the hull out and back into shape. Once it is back into shape, some simple bulkheads and or ribs can be glassed in place to keep it that way.
    B
     
  12. Canracer
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    Canracer Senior Member

    By PAR: "Fin keel boats on trailer bunks is a stupid idea."

    The keel is retractable. The bulbs do rest on a support, but the hull fends for it's self on bunks.

    The parents spend a couple weeks with me here in Florida this time of year. The Adirondacks get extremely cold.

    Name+Holderears first.......It sounds pretty funny but, still it's not reminding me of anything vulgar that rings a bell. :(
     
  13. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    keels

    I have never seen a H-20 with a fixed keel- I didn't know they made them. The ones we sold, and our current local ones have the retractable bulb. The boats were originally shipped from the west coast in a load of 4-6 boats on one flat bed, and the trailers were supplied by the dealers. Boat dealers being what they are :rolleyes:, we usually found the least expensive powerboat trailer available and modified it to fit. Some were "fitted" better than others, and most trailers would have been replaced by now. Damage happens ;)
    B
     
  14. Canracer
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    Canracer Senior Member

    I seriously doubt that the trailers I saw were original. The members of this sailing club probably grab what ever trailer is kicking around the yard, and slam their H20s on top.
     

  15. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Agreed, often folks just don't know how to adjust a trailer to their boat. It's not hard and most can muddle through in a half an afternoon, but it's real important if she'll spend 99% of her life on it.
     
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