Historical multihulls

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Gary Baigent, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 507
    Likes: 19, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 99
    Location: Australia

    buzzman Senior Member

    Yeah, I'm guessing the liability issue is the biggest one. Probably the main reason Farrier no longer sells plans to home-builders.

    Although I suspect he's probably just "over" having to say the same thing in response to the same dumb question he's been asked four hundred and fifty thousand times before...lol

    Farrier's site claims the Command 10 was launched in 1983, but all the correspondence I have between the original purchaser and him is dated '81 and '82, so I'm guessing the earlier plan sets were 'development stage' and Farrier was using the early adopters as his design check mechanism...mine are Build #7, and Farrier reported in Trailertri newsletter that 10 had been sold by end '82.

    How many were actually completed is another story altogether, but it might be good to know.

    For those concerned about the "one set of plans" issue, I have multiple copies of most of the 14 main plans, all of which were mailed by Farrier to the original purchaser. Some of these are superceded versions with changes incorporated in the later sheets, so should not really be used to build a boat. The previous owner simply did not throw away the superceded drawings.

    Also, it should be noted, there are people who collect sets of plans, with no intention to ever build the boat, either for reference while building a similar boat, or purely as a collectible item.

    I think Farrier (and others) are missing a trick by not making older plans available to those who'd like a copy, even if they were "digital only" and missing some of the crucial dimensions, like the lofting tables, for example. A bit like what some other - current - designers offer in terms of a "Sample Set" so people can get a taste of what the boat is like.

    And, legally speaking, any 'copies' made for such "reference" purpose would probably come under the "scholarly use" provisions of the various copyright acts, in much the same way that books can be photocopied at a library for school or university assignments.

    The key phrase is "one boat per set of plans" - in other words - one actually built, completed, floating and sailing boat.

    I have no desire to spark an "intellectual property" argument with anyone - either on this site or with Farrier, but I have researched this issue in some detail in my former career. IP is a minefield, policing it an even bigger one.

    One of the issues under copyright law is proving that the IP owner is losing potential income - as is the case with fake watches and designer clothes. But where a product is no longer made or sold, this issue is much more difficult to prove, making enforcement near impossible.

    The other major issue of IP protection is when a design is copied and sold under a different name - which is truly a mis-appropriation of the IP of the original designer. So if there is no appropriation, there is, technically, no breach of this issue.

    So if the 'copy' is given away, rather than sold, it is impossible to prove that the copier made anything from it, and thereby impossible to prove any loss to the IP owner.

    I have absolutely no intention of making money from selling copies of any of Farriers plans - or of anyone else for that matter.

    I'm sure some of you will have noted that I assisted in making the Bucc 28 plans available freely to download, and made no effort to profit from that action.

    So basically it becomes like the publication online by such sites as Project Gutenberg, of the works of authors that are out of print. Technically, the work - the plan set for the Command 10 - is "out of print" as the IP owner no longer produces it and, according to his own statements, has no intention of ever doing so.

    So if Farrier himself doesn't want to reproduce the product and make it available, but people in the wider global community still want the product, and no-one is making any money out of it, where's the harm?

    I have no intention of setting myself up as 'producer' of endless copies.....to me that would be morally questionable, especially without the permission of the designer and/or IP owner.

    If I was that way inclined, it would have been far easier for me to simply say "I've got 3 full sets of plans. Who wants 'em?"....and no-one would be the wiser as to when they were actually printed.

    My comment about the cost of copying was simply that if anyone else wanted one of the 'spare' sets they'd have to pay for the copying of the few missing sheets in the set, if they wanted them, and obviously for freight. As three of these are very large sheets containing the full-size drawings for the stem and frames of the main hull, I suspect that purely "scholarly" users would not require them.

    Frankly I think there is a serious argument to be made for all plan sets of historic multihulls being digitised and made readily available, as has recently happened with the copying of the plan set of Crowther's Buccaneer 28.

    Like the Command 10, these older boats are no longer the cutting edge in hull and rig design they perhaps were in their heyday, and so are more of "historic interest" than commercial interest and, as such, should arguably be in the public domain.

    Some people may disagree with people doing this - but the Crowther family's approach has and continues to be the same as Farrier's - they will no longer produce any of Lock's early designs.

    So what do people do who want to look at these plans?

    I know I'm not alone in thinking this is a tragedy for present and future students of multihull design and building.

    So if you disagree with this view, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

    I suspect if anyone asked Ian they'd receive the same answer that various people have had from Lock's family over the years. A flat "no".

    Personally, I think this a mistake on their part, but I do understand their perceptions of "risk" and potential liability.

    But I'll ask Ian, just for the sake of it, and report back what he says.
  2. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 92
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 23
    Location: Montana

    Sand crab Junior Member

    I don't know if this has been posted before but it is worth mentioning. Eric de Bisschop made the first major passage in a somewhat modern cat in 1936. He sailed west from Hawaii to Cannes, France. The part I just learned is that James Wharram is a big fan. This webpage has info and great pics.

    Attached Files:

  3. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 507
    Likes: 19, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 99
    Location: Australia

    buzzman Senior Member

    Farrier plans

    Well I've had a conversation via email with Ian, and as we suspected, he's reluctant to make any of his older plans available in digital format.

    Primarily because he doesn't want to give any "copycats" a leg-up, but also because it's too much work providing support for the plans, and because he needs all his time to focus on productionising the F-22, and then subsequently the bigger boats.

    Also, none of the early boats are digitised, although he did let on that he has a few old Trailertri plans on CD, but in very limited numbers, and with no support...

    But he did give his permission for me to post up a larger format of the Study Plans for the Command 10, as these are no longer available from his website.

    There is a low res version of them still on his site here, with the Command 10 info:

    The files I've scanned are too big to upload here, but anyone who wants a hi-res copy can Download them from my online storage at Mediafire. The site may ask you te Register before you can download, but it's safe to do so, they don't spam you.

    For those who don't need a hi-res copy, attached here are low res copies in pdf format.

    The size of these is only A4 and 72dpi, but suitable for reference purposes.

    Attached Files:

    1 person likes this.
  4. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 507
    Likes: 19, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 99
    Location: Australia

    buzzman Senior Member

    Farrier Command 10 info

    Those interested in the Command 10 Study Plans might also be interested in the General Information and Materials List that accompanied them.

    Attached here for your edification and/or amusement. :)

    Attached Files:

  5. warwick
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 423
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 63
    Location: papakura south auckland new zealand

    warwick Senior Member

    Thanks buzzman for the work you have done, for others to be able to appreciate the command 10. It is al ways interesting to see how a design has evolved.
  6. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 507
    Likes: 19, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 99
    Location: Australia

    buzzman Senior Member

    Yes, it's clear that the Command 10 has morphed over the years into the F-33 and F-36.

    It will be interesting to watch how quickly Ian can get the bigger boats to production stage, and find customers for them...

    Perhaps the French speed demons may inspire a few sailors to take on a biggish cruising trimaran.

    Can't imagine Ian will have any trouble selling the big racing boats, as everyone knows how good they are!

    Despite all the DIY stuff on these forums, there are still people who haven't the time to do so, and yet have the funds to buy one outright.

    Me, I might win Lotto..... lol :)
  7. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,711
    Likes: 92, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    It surprises me that the cruising Trimaran attracts no interest from contemporary designers, they seem to be stuck in the cruiser/racer groove.
    The cruiser seems to be stuck in the Searunner, Horstman days.
    Would love to see a modern take on this genre.
  8. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 507
    Likes: 19, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 99
    Location: Australia

    buzzman Senior Member

    Probably comes down to cost. You can geta LOT of catamaran space for the price of a similar length tri with less usable space.

    Effectively, to many people, a tri is a very expensive monohull that has lmited space for its cost, and only a marginal improvement in speed, traded off against the rollover and self-returning capability of the mono.

    A tri is not an easy choice and not for the faint-hearted, or those looking for a 'condo' on the water.... lol
  9. catsketcher
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 1,276
    Likes: 126, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 790
    Location: Australia

    catsketcher Senior Member

    I worked for free for a top Brisbane muti builder about 20 years ago to learn from him. I was going to build a modern trimaran. He told me in no uncertain terms I would be a fool - more expensive to build, less room and less resale. In the end after spending about a year drawing the tri I sketched up a cat that became our 38 footer - I have never regretted the decision - more space and good sailing qualities.


  10. BMcF
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 976
    Likes: 47, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 361
    Location: Maryland

    BMcF Senior Member

    Indeed. This one was built by a friend of mine...I'm astonished by the interior space (having been through it when it was under construction too) and wish I had the money to buy it or one like it.

  11. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,754
    Likes: 182, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Ian Farrier's fixed beam demountable F-36 and folding F-39 are his interpretation of a modern cruising trimaran. On the production side there are the recently launched Neel Trimarans.
  12. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 92
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 23
    Location: Montana

    Sand crab Junior Member

    Don't forget the Contour 50 and 34. What I always liked about the C50 was that it is demountable and you can haul it away on a (big) truck. You only need a regular truck to haul the 34.

    Attached Files:

  13. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 2,097
    Likes: 40, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Phil, that suprises me considering that you owned a Crowther "Twiggy". :cool:
  14. 2far2drive
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 116
    Likes: 11, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 82
    Location: Houston, TX

    2far2drive Senior Member

    Buddy of mine owned one. I sailed a few times on her. Could get up and go for a boat that size with full head and aft cabin! Buddy claimed to have done 19kts with a chute.

    What I didn't like was all the crazy expensive complicated gear on board required to make her move!!!

    His Boat graced the cover of multihulls mag recently as the harbor wing experimental craft after he sold it to them.

  15. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member






Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.