High Density River Silt & Mud Dredger

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Wellydeckhand, Feb 6, 2006.

  1. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Hi,

    I been to website and seen all kind of dredger...... And decided that the River at the back of my house is almost 1 km wide....:eek: :eek: :eek: ........would need some dredging by the government....... but the real work actually at about 4 hours speed ride upstream where transport lane shallow in bcause of silt brought down from various sub-rivers.....

    My friend......Sid of Australia had been suggested that I use a 8M draghead boom and a high volume pump to promptly such out the mud and silt.

    Mmmm...........The problem is ,i would be building the ship but could not understand the properties of the equipment for draghead and high volume pump........

    Anybody had a dredger or in the businese dredger that can give advise for my silly mission with the river?:) :) :)

    Thanks before hand.....

    WellyDeckHand
    :D :D :D :D :D
     
  2. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Mmmm....... In need of the hi volume river pump and silt breaker........ wonder if anybody is in the dredging business...........:):):)
     
  3. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

  4. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 4,742
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    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Welly that's an expensive little hobby your about to start, because of the make up of large slow moving rivers in heavy rain forrested areas (and in your case thanks to lots of removal of trees) you will have a constant flow of soiland muck down river at all times. Certain shallow areas where the mud sticks will rapidly clog up with this silt! Whilst it is possible to quickly clear one of these areas you'll find that it will be a constant daily routine to dredge the section throughwhich the water runs! As this is what is known now as a 24/7 job it's going to cost, big time! I would strongly suggest you carefully check the route your going to take and either plan an alternative or use a smaller vessel! the good news is that once your using it regularly the action of the propeller will scour the fresh mud away, unfortunately this will take some time and until that day you will need to dredge constantly (can you afford both a dredger and the ferry?)
     
  5. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Well walrus babe........:D:D:D ......... Mother nature has a way of putting more soil into the river and alot of people are asking me to clear their area so ship and pontoon can come in to take logs and coal........:) legally I mean :).

    Their using small pontoon now to get to bigger water way and transfer to bigger pontoon so the can export...... too troublesome.

    I am currently checking Mark Twain of the location....... Trust me.... good business and u need strong govt. connection unless u gonna do it for free.

    A dredge boat and a pontoon will do....... side business off the record is I can send the silt looking for strange yellow fool sediment that people somewhat over look for free..... Interested Walrus? u can do private mail for detail.
     
  6. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Designing Cutter suction Dredge

    L.O.A. 12metres
    Beam 6.9metres
    Height 1.22metres
    Weight 15300kgs
    Dredgeing Depth 8metres
    Pump Power 180 kw
    capacity 1170 M3/hour
    Head 46.5(MWC)
    Cutting Power 45 Kw
    Side Winch Force 26KN
    Max Speed 25 M/Min
    Elec. Installation 200(24V/AH)
    Diesel Power 3X111 Kw
    R.P.M. 1800
    Fuel Consumption 206(G/Kw/H)
    SpudForce 25Kn

    Do u think it will work in the Borneo river?:)
     
  7. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 4,742
    Likes: 78, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 659
    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Looks OK to me, but what about crew spaces somebody has to operate this thing! Does he have to hang on the outside! Were do you put the spoil into barges? how far do you have to go to dump it? do you have a Tug capable of towing the barge (s)? how many barges do you need? crew for Tug etc? How do you move the dredge, from your description it don't look self propelled! Does a tug have to stay with it whilst its operating, this means you need two Tugs?

    Lot of questions I know but you need to ask them before you start not as the job progresses!

    Ability of crews, how much pay, time off, spare crew for time off/sickness/visiting granny and a hundred other reasons for not being were you want them! :)
     
  8. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Crew.... 2 tack team doin 24 hrs ( one team consist of 5 person)
    Salary is standard Indonesian but I am a good bos by giving extra interm of the rate silt sucked.
    Pump silt onto the pontoon.
    Silt are taken to midway in river to be process for minerals.
    2 medium barge 180ft.....
    The dredge is installed with small engine that move the dredge( like a snail)
    The vessel will be equipped with sonar or water depth sensor.......
    The crew work for 2 week and rest for one weeks....... mostly dayak that are qualified operator....... ex Kelian gold mine.
    women problem are almost no problem....... beer off the vessel.
    Any other question?

    :):):)
     
  9. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Dredger is also a boat

    Here are some sample of dredger that will do well in Indonesia River
     

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  10. jedclampit
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 69
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 12
    Location: Hollywood, Florida

    jedclampit Junior Asparagus

    You need some help!

    Welly,

    You are in no position to build a dredge...you need to talk to a professional coastal engineer in your area.

    You have no idea how much mud moves within a river system... Your ecology might dictate that you run a dredge 24,7,52, forever to keep silt out of a small channel.

    You have no budget to build a marina, nor do you have the understanding of the environmental issues that you will encounter and here you want to build a dredge to create a channel? You are a dreamer.

    That’s okay, so am I, but you got to smell the coffee. A small dredge will cost at least your budget for a home made piece-o-junk that will only work for a few weeks or months if you are lucky.

    The cheapest real river barge suction head (no cutter) dredge will cost at least a quarter of a million dollars. A real cutter head barge as in your photos will easily run several million dollars.

    I designed and built a suction sand dredge for a client in Antigua for their beach resort. It was a basic barge (3 meters by 5 meters) with an 8” diesel pump, and a pilot house. The barge was driven by an outboard but for dredging there was an anchoring system with a self steering wench that pulled itself through the water. The barge had a bow boom to lower a spiral rake suction head. This was as basic as you can get and the system cost well over your $50k budget.

    I know that you don’t want to hear this again…and this time for the last time…

    HIRE A PROFESIONAL COASTAL ENGINEER!!!

    Or just send me all your money and we’ll both do well by the environment.
     
  11. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Heh Friend,

    I do like your comment, maybe I am a dreamer but I am not alone on this Island you call Borneo...... To you a quater million to few million dollar may sound a lot but not to a business that need to transport coal by using a small barge and later to later barge just to get to the coal terminal. The palm oil that cant be send to the sea by rive but need to be truck transport but cant use tronton........

    I like your view of me, The picture above have sample of what i have found and would like to share.

    I will build the ship and the equipment from International Supplier. I got a guy from Australia already lookin into the design and he is great......... , I am happy that I will be in that river muck sucking project( real work) while u slave your word on the keyboard searching for people to attack.

    The Proffesional are everywhere, but I do like to know what I am involve and help building solution, but If i think I cant handle it, I would gladly give it to someone. The small suction dredger with boom and blade is the result of me going to site doing reseach and measuring how the work goin to be done, not just opening my mouth.

    But still I am glad u dont understand Asian project and our deal and facilities, that mean you are no nearer to my purse....... good hunting


    WDH

    P.S. I like to thanks those people who I take the picture from...... just forgoten the link
     

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  12. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Yup my man say the dredge will be approx 10 billions rupiah........ US$ 1 million.......... thats good money for the return........ monsoon will bring more soil back and more work...... see ya........

    If serious wanna see Indonesia marina and dredging opportunity send resume to wellydeckhand@yahoo.co.id .

    I am not rich but the govt. and bank are ok.....!

    WDH
     
  13. jedclampit
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 69
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 12
    Location: Hollywood, Florida

    jedclampit Junior Asparagus

    Welly,

    I cannot believe that you are seriously going to spend hundred of thousand of dollars to build a dredge without the benefit of experience or expert consultation. I’m sorry to tell you this but your money would be better spent playing the lottery.

    You obviously have no concept of hydrology, sediment transportation or equilibrium. There is a reason that your river is shallow and contains shoals. Also the property that you say that you purchased is a mangrove swamp for a very good reason. Mother Nature is a very delicate balancing act. If you upset or change one area the impact will be felt both up and down the river and nature has a way of correcting itself or moving back to a stable state.

    I’m sorry to tell you this, but you cannot successfully dredge the shallow sediment laden muddy river. The river bed is a fluid body below the water. Because the shoreline is a mangrove swamp and you say that there is little current, this leads me to believe that the river bottom is mud and silt, is not very dense and must contain very small suspended particles.

    You also told me that you have a monsoon season. All reasons that a canal system will not be successful. The amount of money that you will need to spend to build a dredge, maintain it, provide fuel (which can be 100’s of gallons per day), crew, insurance and such, will not be cost effective for the duration the canal will remain useable if at all.

    You need to talk to professionals who do this for a living. If you have the resources to build a dredge then you should use some of your resources to fly and meet with operators and manufactures of dredges. Also the first thing a real engineer would do is to seek a professional to evaluate the concept prior to even thinking of building a dredge. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. If you can afford to fund a dredging project than you can afford to fund a professional coastal engineer consultation, surveys, soils sampling and evaluation tests.

    I have over ten years in coastal engineering and over thirty years in architectural and engineering design experience, but you obviously have all the answers all ready. I’m done…Your wasting my time. You posted in these forums, but you do not ask specific questions and then you have all the answers anyways so what’s your point?

    If you want to just blab on about your dreams…that’s one thing. As far as I’m concerned you can piss away all your money and build a dredge, and attempt to build a marina for 50 grand. I just hate to see you **** the environment and endanger your ecosystem in the process.

    I’m not out to attack you…I was trying to assist you in realizing that you need to hire someone that knows what they are doing. Both here and in the marina thread.

    Good luck!
     
  14. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    I think u Mix up my marina pet project with my inquiry on dredge for the Mahakam

    Welly,


    Yes Dear

    I cannot believe that you are seriously going to spend hundred of thousand of dollars to build a dredge without the benefit of experience or expert consultation. I’m sorry to tell you this but your money would be better spent playing the lottery.


    Dredging will be done with or without my help........ they use pontoon and excavator or clamp with crane. This make the river bed look like it hitted by multiple bombdrop.

    Oh yes..... I written that someone is helping me and he did built a dredger before only he would like me to see which system would be better for the giant river.

    I]You obviously have no concept of hydrology, sediment transportation or equilibrium. There is a reason that your river is shallow and contains shoals. Also the property that you say that you purchased is a mangrove swamp for a very good reason. Mother Nature is a very delicate balancing act. If you upset or change one area the impact will be felt both up and down the river and nature has a way of correcting itself or moving back to a stable state.[/I]

    Yup.... so does the above comment. My marina is small compare to the Mahakam job....... pls make a difference. For my marina I will be using long boom excavator and more man power ( traditional mean).

    I can name u one famous East-Kalimantan town in Mahakam river name Muara Muntai......... completely a big marina town..... ( the govt. encourage its survival...) . The town keep opening up water front to make boat able to park behine their home. The whole city have good grade Ulin walkway even until dryland.The only structure build on dry land is the local school.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    [I]You also told me that you have a monsoon season. All reasons that a canal system will not be successful. The amount of money that you will need to spend to build a dredge, maintain it, provide fuel (which can be 100’s of gallons per day), crew, insurance and such, will not be cost effective for the duration the canal will remain useable if at all.[/I]



    I am not building a canal....! I am deepening the river so the local coal and CPO boat have a better transport volume...... revenue to the govt. understand? Furthermore, I dont like gamble on the internet.

    You need to talk to professionals who do this for a living. If you have the resources to build a dredge then you should use some of your resources to fly and meet with operators and manufactures of dredges.

    The guys here had been on the job for ages and not yet able to understand my concept of better effeciency in dredging. As for flying and have a job vacation with expert that will be nay sayer and push you further into money grabbing question? I have asked alot on the web........ all think I am crazy..... now they smell something real, they just want a piece of the action or maybe the project itself?

    People in different country have different system and wealth distribution, u may try Harvard University next time u try to get an education as a pro. I will still get the job as a local and pensiun before u can come and even see the project for yourself.:cool:

    Also the first thing a real engineer would do is to seek a professional to evaluate the concept prior to even thinking of building a dredge. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. If you can afford to fund a dredging project than you can afford to fund a professional coastal engineer consultation, surveys, soils sampling and evaluation tests.

    And u think I was trying to dredge the river as a hobby without the govt. surpervison or the mining or plantation expert breathing down my neck and giving me report and spec of the job? Are they not the expert of the river? Next step would be you sir sending an email to all Indonesian dept. on the river telling how the river goin to be dredge and the villages and town need to be relocated?

    Try Tarakan......... the beach and swamp are devastated more than 1000 Ha turn into prawn and shrimp farm.....! why dont u go and have a look...... they still doin dredging themselves.:(


    I have over ten years in coastal engineering and over thirty years in architectural and engineering design experience, but you obviously have all the answers all ready. I’m done…Your wasting my time. You posted in these forums, but you do not ask specific questions and then you have all the answers anyways so what’s your point?


    I have other friend in the net and forum that email me and tell me privately, and have the govt. read privately at my comment on the forum, understand? Your comment can also help these guys wake up and smell the coffee.

    I work everything on a budget....... if I spend and tour and talk without the understanding of the job would be overbudget mean you will be laughing me goin bankrupt.

    If you want to just blab on about your dreams…that’s one thing. As far as I’m concerned you can piss away all your money and build a dredge, and attempt to build a marina for 50 grand. I just hate to see you **** the environment and endanger your ecosystem in the process.

    Told u this thread is not about marina........ 50 grand is phase I anyway (in the marina thread ) not here.

    The dredge will be fund by local govt. bank so dont get excitied and go take your happy pills ok.

    I can recomment you take a job in Indonesian Govt. dept on conservation and environment things ok....... get old and ripe haggling with govt. offical and stupid future generation of the local dredging business....... while i try my cheap Cuban cigar.

    I’m not out to attack you…I was trying to assist you in realizing that you need to hire someone that knows what they are doing. Both here and in the marina thread.

    Well do you see my thread crowded by people who really keen to help? Or just people taking a righteous jab at my business that they think are all unprofessional?

    U see, I thinks all people out there who make free plan boat at the backyard are dangerously unproffesional (according to yor theory of long 10 years experience) that will create trouble to the local govt. and the community...... just because the post it on the forum.:D

    Good luck!


    Your welcome......... say hai to your family.


    Wellydeckhand
    :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
     

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  15. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Here my picture of myself doin math in wee hour of the long nite, in order to answer your above question...........
     

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