Hi-res, Hi-realism boat design renderings

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by JonathanCole, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    Why is it so difficult to find technical people to create very high quality boat design renderings. It seems to be possible as they do crop up from time to time. Is it the difficulty of using the available software or is it the lack of training? Why don't all boat design renderings look as good as the examples attached to this post. It would be great if the members would start a search for the best freelance boat design rendering technicians so we can have access to the most talented available design rendering specialists. Please submit your entries for the highest quality stuff you can find. Here are some. I do not know the identity of the artists. If you know the identities of the technicians and the means to contact them please include that info.
     

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  2. urbanvoyage
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    urbanvoyage Junior Member

    3D renderings

    Hi Jonathan, I totally agree! :) We run a company called Urban Voyage - a New Zealand based studio focused on producing high-end 3D renderings for Naval Architects, Boat Designers and Super Yacht Builders.

    It's taken us years to build up the quality and depth of talent to produce photo-real results. It's hard when you're a freelance technician with the cost of software and hardware!

    Anyway, that's my two cents worth. Please check out our gallery - I think you'll like what you see.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2007
  3. Eric Sponberg
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Renderings cost money, and most often, the client for the boat does not want to spend that money for renderings when that same money could actually go toward the boat itself or some piece of equipment on it. I am not very proficient in renderings, I have to admit, and I am busy enough as it is with just getting lines on paper and advising clients on their boats and the associated naval architecture and engineering. I don't have time to render myself, and I cannot afford to keep a staff on hand for the very rare occurrance where renderings would be required. Therefore, I would have to hire it out (so it is nice to know that the talent is there), but I have yet to be approached by the need. It hasn't really materialized.

    Eric
     
  4. urbanvoyage
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    urbanvoyage Junior Member

    Hi Eric,

    You raise an interesting point. It's been fascinating for us over the past 5 years to see the transition that clients have made from not wanting 3D, to in some cases, hiring people in-house specifically for that reason.

    From our experience we're finding it's the owners that are actually requesting/demanding this service. From the yard's perspective it's a good thing - we're seeing owners sign-off on plans much quicker and feeling more involved in the process.

    Rendering should serve the design process and make it easier for the owner to understand conceptually what his boat will look like before construction begins. Our recent work on super yachts has been very exciting with the yard, captain and owner working together in new ways.

    Thanks for your post Eric, great to get some discussion going! :)
    Rich
     
  5. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    I guess it depends on the scale of the project. If the build is measured in millions as opposed to thousands, then the prospect of paying a few thousand $ (How long's a piece of string I know, but give us some idea Rich...) for some renderings is going to be neither here nor there.
    From a marketing point of view - both for a designer and a larger manufacturer it could make sense too...

    Nice "pics" by the way too Rich.....
     
  6. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    I agree with Eric's sentiments.

    IMHO Often with design work a simple non-photo-realistic illustration leaves a little for the imagination which is not so bad. It is also fast and easily printed.

    For example I find Penguin for Rhino produces a simple clear picture that often communicates better than a more detailed rendering, I find the simple pictures more effective than a photo-realistic image. People don't get hung up on the decor but look instead at the design.

    A few years we all used artists to produce conceptual sketches, these were simple line drawings with a little detailed infill in places and they were (and remain) very effective in their intent.

    Beyond this level most designs don't need a really slick presentation as the real merits of a design are quickly apparent to anyone with any basic idea.

    Marketers will tell you that the slick glossy detailed image is not always the best and that our brains work better filling in on partial information and involving some imagination .

    I guess it depends on your target audience as Will says.
     
  7. Eric Sponberg
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Nice renderings are kind of a catch-22 sort of thing, aren't they? The job may materialize faster if you could present renderings, but you need to be paid for the renderings before you get the job. Certainly, on a multimillion dollar project, the up front money is probably there to cover the cost, in most situations. Then in my case I would job out the talent to those that can do it well.

    I once did a small job years ago in which the builder never had the benefit of nice drawings. So I produced a few nice hand-drawn drawings (before the age of AutoCad), even helped him in the shop to help get him going and also learned some of his building techniques. It was a few days of fun and learning. As I was leaving, the crew chief/forman/product development person, and older gentlemen who'd been around the block a few times, waved me off with a very friendly greeting, my drawings in his hand, saying, "Next time, could you put these drawings on the back of an old envelope?"

    Eric
     
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  8. Omeron
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    Omeron Senior Member

    As far as i am concerned, a couple of thosand dolars spent here is probably
    the best dollars put in a boat, unless you are replicating an existing design, where you have actually seen the boat, sailed it or lived in it.

    To me ,there is a huge difference between seeing a profile lines drawing, and seeing how she sits in the water.
    I am particularly sensitive to freeboard of a boat. An inch of higher and lower freeboard changes the entire character of a boat. Same can be said of above deck structures.
    Short of building a scale model of the boat, i cannot think of a better way than creating a 3-D rendering, and playing around with it.

    And certainly building a scale model is far more expensive and time consuming, let alone you cannot easily make changes on it.

    I was long wondering about this subject myself. And i thank you for bringing it here.

    I personally would be willing to pay something around 3 % of the build value of the boat, to be sure what it would look like both inside and out than spending the rest of the time looking at her and wishing it should be a little longer here and shorter there.

    I am surprised that, as professionals, you are not getting this request more from your customers.

    If any of you have any information about who is providing this service and at what cost, it would be most appreciated.
     
  9. yipster
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    yipster designer

    Jonathan, the futuristic pic's you show as samples are not hi-res nor hi-realism

    i belive there is a whole lot more to it, sure today's software is a great tool

    all sorts of variables can be diagnosed, thats the real job, and renders can be made

    i'm a great beliver in 3d virtual design, hi-def is more work tho and often not used
     
  10. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    If you are an innovator, a designer or an entrepreneur, you often have to get the agreement of the customer and/or the investor. Many times these people don't have that much imagination and need realistic illustrations to bring it alive to them. I don't need that for myself because I have a strongly developed imagination, but many people do not. In order to design things that actually get made, I need the cooperation of people who are not oriented toward imagining design. That is why I believe that realistically rendered illustrations are indispensible. However I don't see that many people capable of doing them. Yet some are done with great skill. So who are these people doing the excellent rendering work? What tools to they use? Why is their work such a standout compared to the run-of-the-mill cad drawings?
     
  11. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    How realistic renderings should be? Some around-boatbuilding people believe they are top priority and trying to 'sell' renderings to customer instread of actual design. Then, the designer/naval architect have to change everything to make boat float and perform in practical way.

    Realism in rendering is not really important, in my opinion. It is more important to give understanding of the boat, but no doubt that renderings should be done porfessionally. Most of customers buy boat not from picture, but only after 'touching' actual product.
     
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  12. yipster
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    yipster designer

    if anyone wants to download and play with the quest boat demo it illustrates what is possible
    with click of a button interior color sceme changes, thought that soft is still free
    but the artwork is not and most dont even bother to download, clients included

    another recent Mechanics software thread may be of interest also.

    high end rendering in itself is merely expensive software where glos, color, relief, mapping, reflection
    and refraction, mirroring and hundreds of other parameters that can be manipulated

    artist impression, concept, stylist, inventing, naval architect and boat designer,
    engineering etc all are diferent disciplines that should work together, Alik said it well
     
  13. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Jonathon

    I think everyone has an imagination anyone who can read a novel has a sufficiently vivid imagination to fill in the "visual" details. The required level of presentation depends on the level of competition, usually new concepts don't need the glitz.

    Anyway, what packages have you tried yourself? maybe you just need a few tips on how to get some results.

    Renderers like Vray and Maxwell are full ray tracing photorealistic packages but your first image looks like it is from Flamingo which is capable enough .

    As an aside
    If you are really trying to sell concept designs then nothing compares to a decent model of around 20" (500mm) This model does not need detailing and I have had people look at 20 or so detailed images and they have not been convinced but when later handed them the basic model they have been sold immediately.

    I find it very interesting to watch someone assess a 3d model in their hands, it gives you a better idea of what your 2d presentation should try and show and really it needs to be animated for best effect.


    Cheers

    PS Renderings can communicate structural details very well too.
     

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  14. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    We had bad experience when 'rendering artist' (while he called himself 'designer') have modified our conceptual 3D of powerboat. One day customer signed in... At engineering stage we had to trim 180 mm freeboard at bow as visibility did not match ISO standards - so all impression of profile has changed. The sofas in cockpit were surprisingly low (280 mm including cushions, probably done to get impression of big backrest), there was no coaming in cabin hatch, wrong handrail height, etc., etc., etc. The surface of bottom/topsides has been modified also and we spent few days to re-work and fair it. The shape of chine was surprising... Most of surfaces looked flat but were not developable. Interior 'bounding box' on the modified 3D was exposing outside of the hull, so we had very hard time trying to fit 'spacious' general arrangement approved by customer back into this hull.

    Conclusion: rendering guy is generally not a designer, even if he thinks so. At least not a boat designer... Just 3D draftsman with renderings skills.
     

  15. SC1
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    SC1 Senior Member

    I think a nice rendering better describes a design when you can imagine how it looks in water, see chrome, wood, leather,gloss etc.;)
    Next step will be to include engine sound, smell of salt water and hear all the cute girls whisteling :D
     

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