Help with my restoration. Nida stringers/deck

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by kpiazzisi, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. War Whoop
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    Location: Sunny Ft Lauderdale Fla

    War Whoop Senior Member

    The Mat is not needed but adds to the laminate cross section, a 1708 is only .046" while a 1700 or 170 is .026"
     
  2. kpiazzisi
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Sarasota Florida

    kpiazzisi Junior Member

    I was hoping to not have to sand, but the consensus is that the two layers that have already cured in the bildge section and fuel tank section, are not adaquate. This means I need to sand if I want to add more layers. Ugh!

    - How much do I sand? Does every bit of shiny epoxy need to be sanded? Can I lightly sand the surface (leave any pits or lows of shinny epoxy alone) then clean with soap and brush to get all the amine blush out?

    - I will then need to buy 2 widths of tape larger then the 6 inch tape a currently have?

    -The peel ply trick may work, but I am not sure I want to attempt yet another unknown (to me anyway). I am confortable with the 1208 and have had success wetting it out with little to no air bubles or dry spots, so I think this is what I should stick with.
     
  3. Steve W
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    kpiazzisi, you were asking about the fillers, for filleting, wood flour works well and unlike most of the powders makes a smooth thixotropic paste without the need for silica, maple dust works particularly well. For a fairing compound i find a 50-50 blend of caloidial silica and glass spheres works well, i mix a big batch of the 2 powders together in a kitchen blender to make a smooth blend because the silica tends to be a bit too lumpy sometimes to make a smooth paste.
    Steve.
     
  4. War Whoop
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    War Whoop Senior Member

    Call the company and speak to a rep,usually I just just needed red scotchbrite which I mounted on a DA.also Be careful you need some compression strength (laminate crosssection)to avoid buckling.
     
  5. kpiazzisi
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Sarasota Florida

    kpiazzisi Junior Member

    I spoke to Larry (owner I think) at Raka. He said that a warm wet wash cloth and then a light sand with 80 grit, should do the trick. He said soap would work better, but then you have to make sure all the soap residue is washed off thoroughly.
     
  6. kpiazzisi
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Sarasota Florida

    kpiazzisi Junior Member

    Here are some PICS. What do you guys think? This is the one layer of 1208 6 inch tape and then a layer of 12 oz biax 90 degree 50 inch (cut to custom size). As mentioned I am going to use the 12 oz 90 degree anymore. I have some 1208 50 inch 45/45 on the way.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Hmm,
    perfect looks different.:D

    But hey, you are going to cap the stringers anyway, as I remember, So you add another layer or two to strengthen the structure.

    That might be sufficient to get a license for transporting live Elephants.;)
     
  8. kpiazzisi
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Sarasota Florida

    kpiazzisi Junior Member

    No elephants just my kids and the misses. Hopefully it will feel like I kicked an elephant off the boat by getting rid of all the water soaked plywood and foam. Here are early pics of the rotted stringers.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  9. kpiazzisi
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Sarasota Florida

    kpiazzisi Junior Member

    I added more glass yestuday. I bought 1208 50" and custom cut it to the correct size. It worked very nicely! I think I am getting the hang of this. I did use a squeegy this time. The problem I had earlier I believe was due to the amine blush issue. Raka said that the tropical blend epoxy hardeners gives off a lot of blush. On that particular section I had an issue with, the epoxy was semi cured when I started the second layup. I could still make an indent with my finger nail (as someone suggested) so I went for it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  10. War Whoop
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    War Whoop Senior Member

    You should be fine,remembering getting it right while still liquid and avoiding the grinding option.
     
  11. kpiazzisi
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    kpiazzisi Junior Member

    I haven't made much progress on the boat due to other comitments. I just got out of driving to NJ for Thanksgiving. We were going to drive, now just the wife and kids are going to fly. That gives me almost 8 days with no distractions to hopfully get most of the boat completed. I want to plan everything out so that I am ready to bang this thing out while they are gone.

    I think I am going with the Nida-Core deck. I have come this far with the Nida-Core, so I may as well finish using all composites. A 100lb saving in a boat this size (Nida vz Plywood deck) would also be significant.

    I know many of you well respected boat builders hate Polyester resin. I do like epoxy much better, however I have been thinking about using it just for the deck so that I can gel coat it to match the rest of the boat.

    I was thinking of using the 1200 (0,90) Biax and the CSM because I already have 25 yards of the 1200 (50 inches) and 70 yards (50 inches) of the 1.5 oz CSM. I guess I can go out and buy 1708, but what do you think about using what I already have?

    How much resin will I need for an approx 50 Sq foot deck? I could use epoxy resin if I am able to find paint that will closely match the Gel Coat in the Bow Rider section that mates up to the deck. What do you think would look better?

    Does anyone have experience with mounting seats to a Nida-Core deck. What I am told is that you poke a hole where the screw will go. Then insert an allen wrench in a drill, and break some of the honnycomb. Finally fill the hole with resin and drill and tap. How strong is this technique? I need it to be strong enough for 1/4 x 20 bolts.

    Thanks!
     
  12. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Herman Senior Member

    Try and plan ahead, then you can install rigid pieces of wood / foam / plastic / steel / alu or whatever you fancy in place of the seat mounts.

    I don't see a problem with either your proposed deck layup or using polyester. Of course, the stuff smells, but it is quite usable stuff. There are more polyester boats than epoxy boats. Just be careful with mixing epoxy and polyester:

    -polyester does not adhere well to epoxy.
    -epoxy does adhere well to polyester.
    -if you re-use brushes etc, make sure you use seperate bins with acetone, and NEVER mix them up, or mix the tools up. The (dissolved) amine from the epoxy can interfere dramatically with polyester resin. (making it not cure at all, not develop any barcol hardness, etc)
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Right Herman,

    there is nothing wrong with poly on your nida panels kpiazzisi.

    Just make sure you separate poly and epoxy, and do not try to make poly stick on EP.

    BTW
    the comment above (post#55) was wrong!

    Do NOT make your layups wet in wet, when putting the stringers in. The far superior way is, to wait until the resin has kicked. You work on vertical surfaces, so wet in wet is not going to come out well.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  14. War Whoop
    Joined: Jun 2003
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    War Whoop Senior Member

    HaHaHa oh my God reading is a wonderful thing LOL Since you are using the 1208 wet the strips on a piece of cardboard outside the hull then position in place and roll out like a Prepreg. The wet remark Wiley was referring to cleanup, what a douche.
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Just for those capable of course.............:D



    Hmm.........
     
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