Help Identify this boat

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by Rickfabio, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. Rickfabio
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: South Africa

    Rickfabio Junior Member

    Hi there, i recently came across this lovely wood powerboat (inboard v6) and would like to get more info on restoring it. I'm new to boating but am an engineer and quite handy, im sure i can do what is needed and most likely have all the tools required.
    So for now i really need to identify it so i can research it correctly, source manuals or parts i need.
    Any assistance is appreciated.
    http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7526/photo0039vb7.jpg
    http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8297/photo0042za8.jpg
    http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4619/photo0044to9.jpg
    http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3681/photo0045qw6.jpg
    http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2396/photo0044du3.jpg


    Regards
    Rick
     

    Attached Files:

  2. DanishBagger
    Joined: Feb 2006
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    Location: Denmark

    DanishBagger Never Again

    I don't have a clue, but what's that hole in the stem for? A lantern, spotlight or something completely different?
     
  3. Rickfabio
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: South Africa

    Rickfabio Junior Member

    It's for a light....has a V6 INBOARD that sits centrally. Anything else i can describe or take photos of to make it easier will be gladly done. Ta
     
  4. DanishBagger
    Joined: Feb 2006
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    Location: Denmark

    DanishBagger Never Again

    Perhaps a profile picture without the tarp might come in helpful.
     
  5. skipjackbj
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: portland oregon

    skipjackbj Junior Member

    Check the gauges. If it is a Chris Craft that will show up.
    Check the engines for name. Also the transmissions. If it says Paragon. Then that atleast helps to date it. If it says Velvet Drive. That dates it more into the late 1950's.
    Look for numbers carved into the hull. Sometimes you have to climb forward into the stem to find them. Or a placecard.
    I see alot going on there. The plywood is a dead giveaway that is dating from around 1955.
    The lines are a cross of Thompson and Chris Craft.
    Check the hardware and lights for any clues. Some builders forged their own line of hardware, cleats and lights ect..
     
  6. Rickfabio
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: South Africa

    Rickfabio Junior Member

    Thanks for the tips guys....i know now its a Boesch, any idea what model? And do you know if there's any manuals for it or perhaps books and info on how to restore her to spec?

    http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2858/47216566wk6.jpg
    http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5135/photo0047bl6.jpg

    How do i measure her length....pl;s realise i'm new to boating and still understanding the lingo...it's my new project, ive built my chopper, car and gocart...always wanted a wood powerboat restoration job, going to be a huuuuuge learning curve but i'm good with my hands and tools and catch on quick. I guess i'm wondering where to start...
    i'm thinking...
    1) hoist out the engine...
    2) Somehow hoist the boat off the trailer to get access to all surfaces.
    And this is where i get overwhelmed.
    I think i need to brace/reinforce the structure so it doesnt twist or buckle when panels are removed? how would i do this?
    Also what would be the easiest way to hoist the boat off the trailer (if thats necessary)
    As you can see, i'm probably way off track and will appreciate any assistance....
    regards
    Rick
     

    Attached Files:

  7. charmc
    Joined: Jan 2007
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    Location: FL, USA

    charmc Senior Member

    Rick,

    If it's truly a Boesch, you have a treasure. Here is an exerpt from a description of a used Boesch for sale here in the US: "Boesch has been Swiss competitor to Riva since 1920. Boesch was official ski tow boat in 15 of last 30 years at world championships. Shah of Iran owned 25 of these."

    Boesch is a Swiss builder of handmade mahogany runabouts, many designed for skiing. I believe someone grew tired of varnishing the mahogany hull and for that reason painted it white. Sanded to bare wood and restored properly it may look like those shown here. Boesch is still in business and is proud that many of their classic boats are still running. I'm sure you can get information from them. From data on their website and the look of your boat, I would guess that it is a Boesch 500 (5 mtr long hull) or 510, built sometime between the mid 1950's and the mid 1970's. The engine placement, the nearly flat deadrise at the transom, and the big towbar in front of the engine housing are typical of a towboat for waterskiers. The Boesch website is here: http://www.boesch-boats.ch/boats/boesch-classics

    Restoration will be a lengthy, expensive, highly frustrating, but ultimately very rewarding experience. If possible, it would be best to begin by paying a surveyor with documented and referenced expertise in wooden hulls to do a thorough inspection and detailed report. That will tell you the present condition, and give you an idea of how much work you will need to do. Boesch may know someone in your area, or know of owners who have restored their boats.

    To answer a few of your questions: length is measured down the top center of the hull, from outside the bow (pointy end :) ) to outside the stern ("back end"), not counting the swim platform hanging off the transom (the stern is the back end of the boat; some sterns are pointy, some are round, and some are flat. The flat piece that is the very back of the boat, the piece that holds the sides together and keeps the water out is called the transom). You'll want to put her in a covered shed or garage to do the work. That's preferable, but not essential. Pulling the engine is always a good idea, and will be necessary if there is any work needed on the hull interior.

    You will need several supports for the hull. two at the outer portions of the transom, several (2 or 3) along the centerline of the bottom, and two angled supports to brace the outer portion of the bottom around where the windshield is. Part of the initial survey will include checking for "bends" in the hull, which can develop if a boat is out of water for a long time without full support. A straight edge 1 - 2 mtrs long is a good indicator. The hull is sagging if it is bent down in the middle; it's hogging if the middle is higher than the bow and stern. Either can be fixed by bracing the hull true, then refastening or replacing the stringers (internal lengthwise timbers or made up pieces that brace the hull).

    There are excellent books available on restoring wooden boats, and runabouts specifically, and I would recommend reading one or two before doing anything on the boat. The books will give you an introduction to the elements of wooden boat construction and the terminology for everything, which will make it easier for you to ask the right questions and understand the responses later. If you search this forum, there have been a number of excellent threads discussing this exact subject. Try search terms like restore, restoration, rebuild, classic, etc. There are many experienced people here who are willing to help, and their answers in earlier threads often have links to other sites with detailed information. You can also search the web for classic power boat sites, clubs, etc. It's a popular subject, with lots of information. Last thing: I heard that the January, 2002 issue of Wooden Boat magazine had an article on Boesch boats. Their online issues only go back to 2005, but there is a tab on their website for ordering back issues, if you're interested.

    Your boat looks very well made under the peeling paint. If it is indeed a Boesch, it's like having the boat equivalent of an early Mercedes Benz SL roadster. I found a few pictures of Boesch runabouts similar to yours to show the "after" potential.

    Good luck, and keep us informed along the way!
     

    Attached Files:

  8. charmc
    Joined: Jan 2007
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    Location: FL, USA

    charmc Senior Member

    OK, I magnified your last picture, so it's definitely a Boesch. Looking at the squared off section of removed paint to the right of the Boesch nameplate, that does appear to be varnished finish under the paint.

    In the same blown up view, it looks like whoever built that trailer knew what he was doing. There are multiple supports along the centerline, and what can be seen looks straight. Only a careful inspection will tell for sure, but the initial impression is good.

    Restored Boesch runabouts have sold in the US for from $40,000. to close to $100,000. USD depending on age, model, and condition. Money value may or may not be important to you, but your boat is definitely a worthy restoration project.
     
  9. Rickfabio
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: South Africa

    Rickfabio Junior Member

    Thanks for all the input Charlie, i really appreciate it.
    Well it definately is a Grosch, it's written on all the guages too and by my measurement its a 530. Right now to be certain i'm looking for the 4 digit hull serial for the guys at Grosch to look in their archives, but for the life of me i cant find it anywhere...i'll take some photo's, i suspect some work has been done as some of the inner beams and stringers look really good, in fact, the inner structure looks fantastic...but perhaps its been replaced and not re stamped with number?
    Im sure once i've stripped it out and had a better look i'll find it....i'll take some more photo's (on camera not mobile;) so the res will make close inspection easier.
    Another thing is learning the language and titles of components, im an aeronautical engineer but i see some similarities between the lingo, any suggestions of books like 'boating for idiots' that would speed up the process?
    I've been looking at ordering 'how to restore your wooden runabout' Don Danenberg, but i dont see any references to plywood restoration, its mainly beam planking if im not mistaken....is this correct?
    Any suggestions of books on restorations of plywood specifically?
    It looks fairly good but i will need to replace some of the sides, where it joins to the deck (top?) and i think the entire deck and transom will need replacing.

    Well i think thats enough for now.... i'll post some close ups and high res photos of the areas that look the worst and see what the feedback suggests.
    Again, thanks Charlie and all who have helped in this quest, i appreciate all the input and i hope y'all can tolerate alot more questions....i want to do this right, i wont sell her
    regards..
    Rick
     
  10. Rickfabio
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: South Africa

    Rickfabio Junior Member

    Engine and close ups

    Ok from what i can tell there's a thin layer of some kind of ply that is in the bad shape generally, but the main thicker ply boards screwed into the hull beams and stringers seems to be fairly good apart from some of the joins along edges, i have attached pictures of the worst of it...pls give your opinions on the best approach as far as restoring/replacing the wood.
    I have approx 6x 4'x8' 10mm marine plywood and 1x 4'x8' 12mm marine ply which i got with the boat, is there any way of knowing what type of marine ply i have? i see a stamp with some numbers but cant make them out, i took a picture in case someone knows what to look for and recognises the smudgings of numbers;)
    Another thing im trying to work out is the engine. It has weland on the tappetcovers but otherwise not much else to go on other than the fact its a v8, any assistance would be appreciated.
     

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  11. charmc
    Joined: Jan 2007
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    Location: FL, USA

    charmc Senior Member

    Rick,

    The "thin layer" is, I believe, mahogany laminate, a feature of Boesch construction. I don't have any experience with that, but there may be others here who do. I'm not sure about the rest of their construction methods, but they seem to be proud of the fact that many of their older boats are still running, so they might be very willing to help, at least with information. I suggest contacting them.

    Your pictures, in my opinion, show a beautiful and well made boat which is suffering from long neglect. Lots of work ahead, but the result should be worth it.
     
  12. charmc
    Joined: Jan 2007
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    Location: FL, USA

    charmc Senior Member

    Rick,

    1. Here is an excellent book on restoring classic "high end" runabouts:

    http://classic-runabout.com/restore.html

    2. Click on the "Boat Design Book Store" link along the top border of this page. Once in the book store page, type search terms boat restoration or runabout restoration in the top left topic search box. That will give you links to several books on what you propose.
     
  13. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Your engine is a small block Chevrolet V8 (not V6), likely a 283 (pre 1963) or 327 (1960's) and it's possible its a 350 or 400 (or one of severial other CID's) with conventional ignition, but not as likely as the earlier versions. The setup looks to be Crusader Marine with a Velvet Drive (Borg Warner) transmission bolted to her butt. She'll probably be spinning a righthand prop

    The transmission and/or engine appears to be changed out from the original arrangements. The risers and elbows have had a quicky paint job for some reason. Examine these closely as they are prone to rusting, cracking and leaking. The valve covers are aftermarket ribbed, aluminum from Weland, not the stamped steel, painted ones from Chevy. The carb appears to be a Rochester 4MV or 4MC.

    There should be a package ID plate from Crusader Marine on it. They've been located in several places over the years, but the valve covers are a common spot, as is the coil mounting bracket.

    The engine can be identified by its number found on the boss at the front right hand side of the block. The transmission can be identified by the number on the boss at the left rear of the transmission case or the plate riveted on top of the case.
     
  14. skipjackbj
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: portland oregon

    skipjackbj Junior Member

    Do Not Sand!

    Remove all hardware, electrical, and place in well marked containers as well as photos and notes for each part removed.

    Remove engine, thru hull fittings and drives. Rudder and rudder system too.

    Build a craddle that supports the boat at each main bulk head or frame. Do not allow the boat to sit supported in areas not supported by inside framing. Can cause flat spots in the skin.

    To remove the Paint and Varnish. Use a very good chemical remover. And foremost do not allow the chemical to sit along time on screws or any metal fasteners.

    Most important. Find people who do this for a living. Ether pay them to do the basics for you right the first time.

    Or, follow the best instruction you can get from a book. Check for books on Mohagany boat rebuilding online.

    Pay money. Buy a couple good books. Read,.Think..And practice on an old piece of furniture from Good Will ! Serious.;
     

  15. skipjackbj
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: portland oregon

    skipjackbj Junior Member

    To Ident the Ply. Take a photo of the side edge.
    If it is really Marine Ply. You should see 5-6 layers of wood. No voids! (Broken looking holes) The grain should run against each layer as you look at it.
    If there is a reliable lumber store nearby, take it there.
    Dont go to Lowes or Home Depot! lol !! Unless you need to see sub standard interiour plywood....
     
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