Hardware

Discussion in 'Materials' started by grady, Jun 18, 2008.

  1. grady
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    grady Novice

    I was wondering if there was any clear cut, straight forward, determinating factor in choosing the best hardware for any one application. I am currently in the market for all kinds of hardware, scuppers, deck drains, above the water line thru hulls, butt hinges, deck access holes, hatch latches etc etc.

    I tend to like the better built stuff, but don't want to pay extra if the difference is hard to realize.

    You can get the same piece in stamped 304 ss or chrome plated bronze or brass, frankly it's quite overwhelming.

    anyway there a pile of manufacturers like sea dog line, seachoice, perko on and on. Is there one that stands apart as having quality throught out their line? which would make life a lot simplier.

    Whose hardware would want on you custom built boat?
     
  2. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Hardware isn't what it used to be. Wilcox Crittendon used to (and may still be) the standard. ABI is a Chinese import. A lot of ABI stuff is not bad. They make probably more stuff than anyone, being cost beaters with reasonable quality. For a big hardware choice, try Hamilton Marine.

    Alan
     
  3. grady
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    grady Novice

    Thanks Alan, That Maine supply house looks like a great source.

    The choices are so widely varied, it make sifting through the options tough.

    Thanks again.
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Perko still makes a good part and it's done in the USA.
     
  5. grady
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    grady Novice

    Hardware (deck) installation

    I'm at (almost) the point where I need to think about reassembly, I was surprised when during disassembly there was no bedding under my deck hardware. Although this simplified the process of removing the items, it made me wonder if bedding was a necessary step. The deck has a plywood core (for lack of a better term), the gunwales also have ply coring.

    So is bedding necessary? or can you get away with just sealing the fasteners where they enter the deck?

    The screws and bolts that hold down all this hardware also had no sealant on them.

    There is no apparent damage to anything that any hardware was attached to. (boat is a 1986 24' grady white I/O)

    If I thought this was the last time I'd be taken her apart, I wouldn't hesitate to bed and seal everything ( I'm thinking it's gotta be a good thing). But I have plans to continue my improvements and some of it involves removing some deck hardware.

    So how important is to seal her up?

    Thanks
     
  6. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    I'd be pretty amazed if after taking off 20-year-old hardware with no bedding, there was no damage underneath.

    3M 5200 seems to be the standard for hardware bedding. If you're concerned about removal, they make a variant called 4200 that is designed to be easier to disassemble later. There are slow- and fast-cure versions available, the 4200 supposedly cures a bit slower and is not as strong, but is said to be just as watertight.
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    On an all 'glass laminate, other then leaking, you may not have damage under a piece of un-bedded hardware. This isn't the case in many situations, where fasteners may go through wooden backing blocks, cores, carlins, etc. Bedding is cheap insurance and worth the effort if you don't want leaks or rot.
     
  8. grady
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    grady Novice

    Bedding

    Thanks Par and Matt, Yeah you guys pretty much confirmed what I knew in my heart to be right.

    Some other thoughts/questions though:

    In the past I have used 5200 for bedding (under my antennae mounts on the hardtop) Which I just recently had to remove. Boy what a chore. Then there's the task of cleaning up the hardware for remounting (daunting). Any tips on how to clean up these pieces?

    Will 101 work for a bedding material, seems a lot easier to work with?

    I would think that once a piece of hardware is bedded onto a surface it wouldn't (or shouldn't) be scheduled for removal anytime soon. Should not bedding them ever be considered an option.

    My dilemma, is I'm planning to remove these pieces soon for another outfitting upgrade, and don't want to be wrestling every piece off my fresh new awlgrip paint job. ( speaking of which did you see the pics Par?)

    Thanks for your thoughts
     
  9. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    3M 101 is a marine one-part polysulphide sealant. 3M says it's designed for bedding and sealing all manner of mechanically fastened joints, but is not an adhesive. Data sheet at http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtmXMyM8TtEVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666-- , looks like it would work fine.

    I've used exterior-grade or kitchen/bath house sealant (Mono, etc.) for bedding a few things, too.... not ideal for permanent use, but if you find a cheap one that's reasonably flexible, they do keep the water out for a few years and don't bond well enough to cause problems when you remove them later. Again, not for permanent use on a boat.
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Polysulfide (3M 101) is my choice for wooden interfaces below the LWL. It's a sealant/adhesive, but as Matt has mentioned, light on the adhesive side, quite good on the sealant.

    As you know Grady, 3M 5200 is an adhesive/sealant, heavy on the adhesive side and very good as a sealant, if the joint isn't going to need much flexibility (it cures fairly hard). It doesn't stick well to wood below the LWL unless it was under pressure during the full cure (clamped in a seam, for example). If it's applied as a seam filler, it will just release after the wood becomes saturated.

    3M 5200 isn't affected by many chemicals that I'd be willing to let the average person fool with. A hot knife or piano wire are effective tools to break the bond it has with a part. Scrapping and sanding is the only true way to fully remove cured 5200.

    3M 4200 and 4000 are less aggressive adhesives, though still pretty good. BoatLife caulk and other brands also have less adhesion the 5200.

    If I was doing a temporary bedding job, I'd wax both bonding surfaces well with a regular car wax, buff then apply a regular caulk (household tub and tile will work). This will effect a seal, but can easily be removed (the reason for the wax) when the time comes, with little clean up.

    Of course you want to keep an eye on a bedding job like this, because it's just a matter if time before it fails.

    Yep, I remember the photos.
     
  11. grady
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    grady Novice

    Fresh Paint

    These are the pics, Just finished the hull and working on a few odds and ends.



    there's more in my gallery
     

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  12. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Of course you want to keep an eye on a bedding job like this, because it's just a matter if time before it fails."


    I have found Most bedding eventually fails.

    5200 is not bedding , but glue and should never be used on things that will need re-beding.

    Hull to deck joint GREAT ! Cabin windows or deck cleats never.

    My personal preference is for bedding that doesn't harden .

    While it doesn't hold things together as a glue , it is among the easiest to clean off and re-bed with

    DOLPHINITE

    Yes, its probably a 120 year old concoction but after a couple of years when an item stressed ,(like a bollard) or left in the sunshine (like a cabin port) needs to be redone . Its a SNAP!

    FF
     

  13. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

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