Hard Chine composite, preglass panals before or glass in place?

Gentle men open your minds !! step outside the box you are in!! you are thinking but not looking beyond whats in front of you . making glass panels then fitting a core and then triming backetc etc !!! take a few steps forward and stop standing in the cow dung of procastination ! come on get with it !! I bet moulding the rebate in the other side for the joining glass strips is way beyond you as well !! Its about time catbuilder was here !!yoo hoo where are you ?? :?:
Been and done this subject a while back with all the same questions being asked and the answer are still the same and dont need to change !!

MAKING , THEN FITTING AND TAKING ON AND OFF IS NOT USING YOUR HEAD !! WHATS THE MATTER WITH MAKING ACURATE PATTERNS AND BEING A LITTLE ACURATE AND DOING THE JOB ONCE !!!

 

I believe that PP honeycomb is drapable with some heat. Plascore can provide it in huge sheets up to 50 feet long and about 7 feet wide. If I were building 50 of them, I'd buy large sheets, heat them up and put them in a real mold and make a single piece hull bottom.

Alas I'm only building one.

I'll have to make a test panel and see how it feels. I'm leaning toward the scarab method. I just wasn't sure if I was understanding correctly to glass before putting on, and I wasn't sure how it would work with the honeycomb. We'll see how the test panel feels.



Gypsy - What brand of honeycomb did you use? Also what were your thoughts on the sailing performance of the Scarab? What would you modify if you were going to build another one?

 

Honeycomb brand was "Polycore" in Australia. It wasn't my boat I just helped build 1 float hull, sorry not sure how the boat sails, hulls were light and sleek tho so should perform pretty well I think

DAVE

 

Tunnels - enthusiasm and two to three paragraphs of ragged English wont get me or anyone else to take up your 'enlightened methods'.

If you are serious about 'spreading the news' - you are going to need a lot of pictures, specifications and plenty of step by step tutorials.

 

I received my shipment of Plascore PP honeycomb. I think it will be a great material to build with.

It is also very floppy without glass. After holding a piece in my hand, Gypsy is exactly right. It wouldn't hold a fair curve at all. I played around with some body shop polyester resin and body shop fiberglass (really crappy stuff that I just had laying around from a project I did about 5 years ago). Anyway with glass and resin on one side, it was only slightly more rigid. Probably a 50% increase in rigidity. Still very floppy. Once I had some glass on both sides, the rigidity increased by many orders of magnitude. It went from noodle, to stiffer than plywood. And it was super light weight.

I think the best option is going to be glassing both sides first, or at least glassing one side first. I'll need to see how rigid it is with one side glassed with real epoxy and e-glass.

 

That's great!

Sometimes, all the theory in the world doesn't pan out until you really get the material in hand and work it.

You will save a lot of time pre-glassing flat panels, if you can get away with it.

(Hi Tunnels!)

 

Exsperiance and common sense !!!

 

I have to say I love that bit

Good luck with your build, plenty of pics please

DAVE

 

So you dont have any imagination and cant see a few steps ahead of yourself !!! And dont understand the limitations of the materials you are working with !! you want pictures ?
close you eyes and what do you see??BLANK !!!! i bet !! ,
step by step tutorials ??
How much room you got at your house ?, i will come and hold your hand !! but only if its clean !!
Have you ever crossed the road by yourself yet ??
Like i say to the young guys i have working with with me if i have to think for you, i want 50%of your wages !!!
How do you know what cloths to wear in the morning when you get out of bed ? what about breakfast do you have trouble making up your mind to have tea of coffee ? what about toast or is that stretching the gray matter a little to far !!
I bet you wife gets it all for you dosent she !!! Because you'd go to work in the same cloths every day and wouldnt have any breakfast cause you couldnt make up you mind what to have !!
OK Now you can open your eyes !!! you didnt see anything when your eyes were closed did you ?? That figures !!

 

re Tunnels method etc, just remember that the bias of the cloth is what produces the great strengths that we are looking for, such as 45 bias in the topsides to prevent the topsides from bending (in its simplest form), so making the construction "convenient" may not be in the best interests of the finished product, but a combination of thinking and structural integrity can certainly make life "easier" if that is what you want.

 

Double bias45/45 in the topsides gives a nice panel that is fair and yet can induce a little shape quite easly , along with triaxle 45/45/90/ in the bottom !because its a special triaxle it will allow bend in one direction yet let you wrap up and around in the bow area simular to double bias . !! is all good glass and have build lots a boats using this glass in addition and combination with others for the final lay up inside and out !!
Please note the oriantation of the glass that you will get in each panel (bottom and topside ) !!! you could use triaxle of 0/45/45 but will get a slightly differant shape appearing at the panel as it bends into the bow and could have a slight hollow !! understand the material you are working with . the 90/45/45 is a good glass to use as a final layer with the 90 of the 90/45/45 is the surface layer to give max stiffness yet be little flexable take note of the dirrection and how the layers are stacked and can be made to work better for you !!!!!

 

yes, I want pictures. !!!!

If you arent in the position of trying to explain yourself, you are just out to promote your own ego.

Its a common mistake for people to wrongly assess their own 'greatness', and castigating people who have things to learn, as a boost to their ego.

If you want to take the 'high road', and not actually try to share your ideas, you neednt bother. Its not usefull or productive to 'put down' others without explaining yourself.

I have learnt a lot from your posts in the past, and I look forward to hearing about problem solving.

I just cant use non-explanatory, self aggrandisement.

 

Ooooh did i up set you ? Im sorry !!
Problems are only problems when we see them as problems and dont have any answers ! we can find answers to these problems if we sit and look at the problem for long enough !!!
People make boats from sheets of plywood !! right ?? so why not sheets of glass or steel or aluminium or what ever!
Glass for me is easy to make and easy to work with, its what i have worked with since 1972 And it hasent really changed in all that time . Make it thin and light and its floppy like panel steel ! change the type of glass and then its a little more like thin plywood !!You do realise there are many differant types of plywood ?? They may all look the same on the outside but the inner layers have been Oriantated differantly and so the sheet will bend differantly !! simple aah !!
Glass is the same !! what you use determins what you get as a end result . Change to oriantaion of the strands that make up the panel you have a totally differant animal !!
Thickness !! same as plywood thin will wrap and bend thick wont !! exactly the same with glass !!! Its possible to make cored panels that will bend to!, but just one side gets glassed!! if its inside a former then its glass against the outside if its over a former its glass to the inside and foam out . the thickness of the foam is just common sense the size of the sheets of foam also common sense as well as where joins get placed !! So yes you do have to do a little bit of planning and thinking ahead of yourself .BUT there are some that find forward planing and thinking all at the same time very difficult if not impossible .

STEP BY STEP !!! well you can use a pen and paper and write it down and add and shift information to where you think it should go in the step by step proceedure!!
Something for you to practice some time !! Build a boat in your mind with you eyes closed from start to finish!!, including painting right down to the colour you will use !, think of every brush stroke !! everything in your mind !! If you can do that then welcome to my world !!
everyday I do a whole days work before i get out of bed !! but its in my mind right down to the last detail of the slots in the screws all facing the same way !! Can you do that ??

One example was a problem with a chopper gun ! INTERMITANT problems are the hardest to find believe me !!, the catalyst pump would stop working sometimes for a couple of strokes !!other times a whole area . we had the pump to bits 3 times and all new seals from top to bottom but still it persisted .
At 3;00 am one morning i woke up and wrote down what to look for . I arrived at work next morning , came into the shop removed the pump ,removed the plunger, and the end ,and the ever so small check ball ,and there it was !!!a bend spring !!!!
Just every so often the ball would cock off on a angle because of the bent spring and not return to its seat . I hasnt happened again for more than 4 months since i straightening the spring !
tasmania is a island !! Did you think there was another person on the island when you found foot prints and a while later 2 sets of prints by the end of the week you were running trying to find the crowd that was leaving all those prints Or you could have just turned round and gone home and waited !!

 

yeah - I'm a precious , sensitive little flower, so be nice to me

 

Ok you will love what i tacked on the end of the last message !! sorry i couldnt resist !!