Harada on Ted Talks - Ideas for sail boat design

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by MoeJoe, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    MoeJoe Junior Member

    http://www.ted.com/talks/cesar_harada_a_novel_idea_for_cleaning_up_oil_spills.html

    Starting about oil spill recovery technology but later in video more about (robot) sail boats.

    What do you think? For example, rudder in front on a sailboat, or two surfaces, one in front, one in back, both steerable and both working as keels. And that "snake boat" perhaps impractical for actual sailing with people on board, but could it actually be an efficient design?
     
  2. sean9c
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    sean9c Senior Member

    Really? People pay him to do that? I think he's assertions that he's revolutionized sailboat design based on his perceived performance of his crude models insults all the pros and amateurs that have worked so hard, for generations, to make boats better.
     
  3. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Unbelievable!

    Colin Archer solved that problem over a hundred years ago.

    His sailing life boats are reputed to have towed at least three fishing boats (probably one to three tons each) at a time, off a lee shore.

    The secret is a heavy boat with a large keel.

    Also, like a tug boat, the towing bit should be about one third the boat length ahead of the rudder. Bet he never heard of that rule.

    The articulating boat is a very expensive alternative. I challenge him to fit a usable interior to one :D.
     
  4. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    This is a very innovative approach, no doubt. The uses would seem to be limited to RC oil clean-up and smaller craft. I could not see such a flexible hull approach being applied to larger boats. Imagine sleeping down below when the skipper decides to take a turn...and your flexible bunk distorts and vomits you onto the deck of the cabin.

    I could see this evolving into a surfing hull where the surfer flexed the hull with his legs and could tack/jibe with the wind.

    Interesting yes, but practical...likely not.
     
  5. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    The premise of using natural forces to clean up man made disasters is fine and dandy. It's attractive enough to get this bozo a little money and a whole lot of attention. The concept of open hardware is attractive but mostly it is just a crappy negative emotional response to merit based (money driven) development. This guy just keeps producing things that are interesting to him and never achieves anything! The good news is that natural forces are cleaning up the oil spill -waves break it up, sun evaporates it, and microbes eat it. The sad part is this bozo continues to act as if he has a contribution to make when he failed the first step in engineering -ask experts and find the state of the art before spending on development! MIT has a fantastic naval architecture program, why didn't he ask them for a design? Could it be he didn't want to get all bogged down in reality and performance? It sure seems that way to me. Why else would he start by specifying the design should go upwind?
     
  6. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    In the world of open development you should never be critical of anyone's ideas. A good design team is made up of open minded individuals trying to solve problems. That's all this guy has done. He's not concerned about patents and retiring early. To each his own.

    One of the Ted bloggers commented further that such RC sailboats could be deployed & remotely controlled by whoever wanted to hop on the net and drive them. Yet another novel concept...possible too. Users would have to be logged in & assigned a boat, which could be controlled to operate within a designated zone. An admin could oversee operations and kick users who didn't do a good job or fell asleep at the computer LOL.

    Lots of good ideas here. As a former project manager I've seen my share of closed-minded people laid off. They're obstructions to progress. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

    My 2 cents.

    PS your note on natural forces cleaning up oil spills is somewhat true for warmer waters where microbes breed & eat oil. Up north these microbes are not as plentiful so oil spills cold waters can leave environmental disaster for many, many decades.
     
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  7. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    I pay my bills in the open development world, and I beg to differ somewhat. You MUST be critical of people's ideas, especially in open development because there is no quality control on who gets to contribute. I've seen more half-baked, impractical concepts in open development than I've seen in ivory tower closed development environments. That being said, open development can be leveraged to produce incredibly good quality products with lots of distributed daddies and mommies making sure it does exactly as told.

    The best development comes from singular focus on solving a problem, with multiple hands executing that singular focus and many eyes debugging and testing the outcome.

    --
    CutOnce
     
  8. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I think even good ideas can stand some criticism. Even withering criticism.
    (Let him defend his ideas! Not just broadcast them to a captive audience of would be hipsters) An articulating boat, even an RC one, is likely to be way more expensive than an alternative that can do the same job.

    As for 'cool' effect, this concept can't be beat. And I suppose that's the real point. Kind of like an expensive Seguay(r), a bulky, heavy, high tech vehicle that probably cost several thousands of dollars, that can do exactly what a $100 electric scooter can, and take up twice as much space.

    Instead of 'cool', I prefer 'elegant'. 'Elegance' is accomplishing a goal by the simplest, most cost effective means possible.
     
  9. Steve Clark
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    Steve Clark Charged Particle

    At once this is an intriguing idea, but almost immediately it fails to pass muster.
    The flexible hull with no form stability, horrid surfaces and worse foils will never achieve what he hopes. It simply lacks the efficiency and power to tow anything upwind.
    On the other hand is moving necessary?
    I mean the oil spill is moving down wind down current, why does the clean up apparatus have to move? Wouldn't stationary blotters work just as well. Assuming you can find the bottom, a mile of light line and a cinder block is a lot easier than a little drone. All you really need id a differential drift rate, so maybe even anchors aren't necessary, just a pinger so you know where the damn things are.

    If the things have to be underway, it seems that a solar charged electric drone would be more reliable and just as green. Sunlight instead of wind?

    In my mind the perfect little device is a robot that lives on oil. Has enough smarts to find it and capacity to process it to keep itself alive. It would swim around harbors and terminals and eat up whatever fell in the drink. If it hummed a happy tune while it did it ....
    SHC
     
  10. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Joe T. I couldn't disagree more. Development requires constructive criticism. Critical review is the the basis of higher learning. If this guy had any interest in cleaning up the environment he would seek experts and welcome their critical review. As it is I can only conclude that the true objective is to milk good intentions and use the money to make toys.

    What development (open or otherwise) can't tolerate is the suggestion that critical opinions will not be tolerated -like by suggesting someone can, should, or will be fired for expressing them!
     
  11. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Cut once, Open Development

    Cut,
    I can relate! We have all felt the pressure of limited resources and grumbled over coffee that we would be better off without them. But without the profit motive it is far more difficult to maintain focus to achieve truly great solutions! Open development needs to recognize this deficiency and fill it with dedication to advancing the state of the art. Look at academia, they have been doing it for centuries.
     

  12. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    The scope of his project was merely a concept, and a quite interesting one at that. Your criticism was a bit over the top. People like you hold back good ideas.

    You're fired.

    [​IMG]
     
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