gutter extrusion ? water management -Hatch cover

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by marcbeaudry, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. marcbeaudry
    Joined: Jun 2015
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    marcbeaudry Junior Member

    Hello !
    long time lurker, i just joined :

    I've got a flush wood deck hatch that leaks like a sieve - relatively large - about a 24'' X 48'' trapezoid shape on a cambered deck - it's not hinged - and doesn't need to be - just a drop in setup - and thats fine with me. previous owners have had at it and i'm just about finished peeling off layers of muffler tape and damaged fridge seals. i'm not certain what was initially in there - after 50 years on there isn't enough archeological evidence remaining of a gutter system - but that is what i think would offer up the driest solution- the hatch is over the tank room -but when it leaks it ends up getting into the aft cabin bulkhead - which i've just replaced - re: 50 years of leaking finally took it's tole on the material there.

    a gutter system might be an ideal solution - as I tackle ALL projects at the same time on a new (to me ) boat - i'm trying to find the easiest solution possible to trying to keep a wood hatch cover in a wood deck - i can re-used the existing hatch cover (although it will need replacing/repair in not too long)
    does such a thing exist as an aluminium or stainless extrusion well suited to gutters ?
    there are plenty of options (deck scuppers ) to plumb it into - it's mainly the gutter system - B plan could always be plywood and epoxy - i'm just curious if there was faster solution...

    thoughts, comments or ideas are all appreciated !

    many thanks
    marc
     
  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It would depend on the construction of the hatch. Can you post a photo? There are several possible solutions.
     
  3. marcbeaudry
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    marcbeaudry Junior Member

    IMG_1490.jpg

    bottom side of hatch cover

    IMG_1491.JPG

    hatch opening
     
  4. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The typical solution is a frame made of U-channel welded at the corners with one or two downpipes. Connect hoses to the pipes and drain to the bilge or outside.
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You can make a copper, aluminum or stainless steel channel, which is difficult without some metal working skills. You can also build it from wood or even a 'glass channel. The wooden one will be in keeping with the boat, the 'glass one will be more water tight. It's not an especially difficult thing, though a little tedious getting the deck crown and sides worked out, with drainage. You can bend some aluminum U channel to work, miter the corners and install some drains, to pee through the transom or under the rub rail. Considering it's relative exposure, I'd make them deep, with large diameter drain hoses.
     
  6. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Just out of curiosity about "just a drop in setup ", whats stops the hatch from falling in ? I assume it sits flush to the deck when installed.
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Usually these types of hatches have a flat stainless strip around the perimeter to prevent the hatch from falling through. The one photo shows where this might land.
     
  8. marcbeaudry
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    marcbeaudry Junior Member

    large diameter .. 1/2''
    or larger ? for the channel i'm considering 1'' flanges by 2'' webbing - sufficient ? insufficient ?
     
  9. FAST FRED
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Maurice Griffiths , created wooden hatches that did not leak, Google away,,,,
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I've done many wooden hatches that don't leak either, though the caveat is initially. Eventually things start to move, unless encapsulated and/or sheathed with something. Soldered copper works well and doesn't corrode, welded stainless, bronze and aluminum also work well. A well done 'glass laminate will also tend to have serious durability, without leaking.

    As to the size of the perimeter channels, you really can't go too big, but sure can be undersize, so 1" wide and 2" deep sounds slightly small to me. 2"x2" sounds about right, at least to me. A couple of 1.5" drains would be a good start, to get the water out of the channel as fast as practical.
     
  11. marcbeaudry
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    marcbeaudry Junior Member

    Thanks Par - 1.5'' drains is great direction - useful information.
     
  12. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Certainly is, it only takes a few feathers & fallout to block 3/4 drains..

    That hatch is big enough for a small bath, you could put emergency steering through the plug hole;).... or at least a drop shelf for easy access storage.

    Jeff.
     
  13. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I have the same setup on an outside hatch. Mine has a wooden gutter.
    When I got the boat I tore out some serious rotted wood. Replaced framing all around the hatch, replaced hatch framing, replaced guttering, replaced much deck framing, had to replace one large floor frame under the hatch. Leaks also cause rust on the generator. I used pressure treated wood on all repairs including the floor frame, what in a house you would call a joist.

    Years ago on my major hull repair, I replaced all the strut log wood with PT wood. It was all rotten from fresh water rain leaks. That wood holds the bronze strut and bronze rudder bearing. Also replaced all the hull framing aft 2/3 third of the hull. 40 years of rain caused extensive rot.

    I gave up trying to seal the water out. For the gen, I made a flat piece of painted hardboard to sit on a inch thick wood frame to keep water off the gen. That works great. The PT wood can no longer rot, so that is great too. Any rain water simply falls into the bilge and gets pumped out by the automatic bilge pump, so that is great too.

    EggHarbors idea was a smallish wooden gutter screwed in to the hatch framing that also supports the hatch. Plumbed to it was 1/2 inch copper pipe which ran through hoses to large deck drains which flow overboard. The teak deck wood was all sealed, maybe when it was new it was ok. I think after a few years it started to leak.
    The hatch itself is 2 hatches, between each hatch was a SS hinge and SS trim all around the hatch. to seal at the hinge, a strip of vinyl was used and secured by the SS trim screws.
    I took off the SS trim, i might put it back on someday. But it made removing the hatches hard work, it doubles the weight, both hatches had to be removed as one. Plus the SS edge is sharp.

    I always wondered if the SS trim was OEM or added by a later owner. One result of the SS trim was the teak under the SS trim was not worn down, the unprotected teak next to the SS trim was worn away.

    I wonder if I will live long enough to ever improve it anymore.:)
     
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I have a few of those hatches on one of my boats, built in 1960. The engine access covers have flat bar stock (actually heavy sheet, maybe 16 gauge) around the perimeter of the hatch cover, which lands on the surrounding deck when closed. These hatch covers just lift out, no hinges or latches. The carlins inside the support beams that define the perimeter of these holes in the deck have a rabbit to receive the hatch cover frame (they're heavy), so the stainless perimeter stock is simply trim to conceal the seam. This is a common way to handle openings where water getting in is unlikely.

    A foredeck hatch the same construction, except the rabbit in the carlin is boxed and a trim piece employs a gasket, to help seal it. The hatch cover still rests on the carlins, but two drains take any water to the rails. Most importantly is the boxed in portion of the carlin/beam assembly is lined with copper sheet and soldered watertight. Very simply, clean and none corrosive. I had to repair this copper tray thing, when redoing the deck and I just remade again it from copper sheet. Just cut it up, bend it as needed, then solder the corners and drains.
     

  15. marcbeaudry
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    marcbeaudry Junior Member

    Just out of curiosity - Have you got pics of this second hatch Par ?
    it is huge, a person COULD fit a bath in there or even a tender - the premise was being able to remove the tanks from the aft hold if required - i've got a goodly amount of rot to repair - but I thought i'd start with fixing the problem that caused the rot in the first place and go from there, the P.O had scabbed in some replacement 'joist' sections where the originals had failed = known issue causing rot - i've now replace the entire aft cabin bullkhead - and will redo the 'scabs' with some white pine - this mainly so i can mill them back to reset 1/8'' thick aluminum plate frame - to which i'll weld some 1'' deep by 2'' wide gutters - with 1.5'' drains in both aft corners -
    The hatch lid sits in the actual gutter - so no point in sealing the hatch - just manage the water - which i think was the original intent with the wood gutters. Once i've got that working...it's looking like the aft deck and some framing is going to need a complete going over :(
     
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