Global Warming? are humans to blame?

are you suggesting NASA NOAA and NCAR are all trying to be deceptive when they all describe an 03 "layer"

your struggling on this one Hoyt, might want to just accept that its considered a layer when 90% of a molecular form exists at a particular altitude of the atmosphere

nice looking drink
did you make one for everyone are will you be wearing that on your nose

B

 

Yes.

Never.

Get your own. The recipe can be found above.

 

As Boston says: when 90% of the ozone in the atmosphere is found at a certain altitude, it's quite reasonable to call that altitude the ozone layer. And the reason ozone doesn't spread throughout the atmosphere until it's evenly mixed is because it isn't particularly stable -- it doesn't last long enough. As it spreads into the rest of the atmosphere, it hits free radicals and is converted back into O2 and O.

I know the stock-in-trade of climate deniers is to deny the facts and rewrite scientific knowledge. But you're getting carried away....

 

Hoyt, in principle you are right about Brownian motion and gas diffusion and it holds true in a closed system.

However it is a weak phenomenon that can be overcome in the size of the atmosphere and the effect of radiation and temperature change between day and night etc.

Extract from Wiki article on the "Atmosphere of Earth"

* The ozone layer is contained within the stratosphere. In this layer ozone concentrations are about 2 to 8 parts per million, which is much higher than in the lower atmosphere but still very small compared to the main components of the atmosphere. It is mainly located in the lower portion of the stratosphere from about 15–35 km (9.3–22 mi; 49,000–110,000 ft), though the thickness varies seasonally and geographically. About 90% of the ozone in our atmosphere is contained in the stratosphere.

* The ionosphere, the part of the atmosphere that is ionized by solar radiation, stretches from 50 to 1,000 km (31 to 620 mi; 160,000 to 3,300,000 ft) and typically overlaps both the exosphere and the thermosphere. It forms the inner edge of the magnetosphere. It has practical importance because it influences, for example, radio propagation on the Earth. It is responsible for auroras.

* The homosphere and heterosphere are defined by whether the atmospheric gases are well mixed. In the homosphere the chemical composition of the atmosphere does not depend on molecular weight because the gases are mixed by turbulence.4] The homosphere includes the troposphere, stratosphere, and mesosphere. Above the turbopause at about 100 km (62 mi; 330,000 ft) (essentially corresponding to the mesopause), the composition varies with altitude. This is because the distance that particles can move without colliding with one another is large compared with the size of motions that cause mixing. This allows the gases to stratify by molecular weight, with the heavier ones such as oxygen and nitrogen present only near the bottom of the heterosphere. The upper part of the heterosphere is composed almost completely of hydrogen, the lightest element.


The full article is here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

Is it my imagination that you are less open to reason since you adopted the Rabid Mad avatar?

 

Since I(along with my allies) was labeled with that description I went ahead and changed the avatar. Next week it might be a bunny rabbit, perhaps the evil one from Watership Down.

What do you think of this one?:

 

P.S. In a way, the atmosphere is a closed system wherein the force of gravity acts as the containment vessel.

 

I like it, glad to see you have not lost your sense of humor.

Yes. If gravity was the only influence there would be chemical layers all the way down depending on molecular weight, starting with the lightest, hydrogen and helium at the top.
All the ozone would finish up at one altitude.

 

There are other forces at play, as you have correctly implied. Gases do not behave the way you have suggested. All the gas fills all the space, even in a closed vessel under the influence of gravity. CO2 makes its way up into the atmosphere even though it is heavier than O2. It may start low, but it goes up.

 

in minor amounts

 

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, etc.

 

did you learn that in kindergarten debating?

 

In a closed container with no other forces at work, gases will tend to spread evenly and intermingle evenly. The atmosphere is hardly a closed container with no other forces at work. You have temperature differentials, wind and weather, ozone being created at one altitude and destroyed at another, etc.

Not to mention the difference in density at higher altitudes. Gravity is not like a closed container that seals the gases in while they mingle. At higher altitudes the pressures are less, and the molecules in the gases are spread so far apart that they don't jiggle against one another enough to overcome the pull of gravity and stay evenly mingled. Instead, they do tend to settle into layers according to their molecular weights, with a higher concentration of the heavier gases down lower and hydrogen (the lightest) mostly on top.

 

who labeled you rabid ?

loopy I could understand but rabid
nah

cheers
B

 

I can meet you part way on this one.

At high levels where the pressure is low enough molecular weight does come into play. At low levels with higher pressure it would not.

Brownian motion and diffusion operate at a molecular level, any mixing caused by these methods would be minimal in comparison to turbulence in the atmosphere.

I also agree the term "ozone layer" is a misleading shorthand.
If you asked for a cheese sandwich and the middle layer only contained 2 to 8 parts per million dairy product you would not be happy.

Fortunately for us 2 to 8 parts per million of ozone is enough to reduce harmful solar radiation.

 

...and we create it using electricity, etc.