Global Warming? are humans to blame?

Hey bntii:

Thanks for the latest pebbles!

http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/a/156663.htm

http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/atmosphere/atmospheric_composition_p3.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulate

I'll let you connect your own dots on this one. I'm sure that type of puzzle suits you.

Jimbo

 

50 or more years ago my father told me not to argue with a fool.

Im outa here. You wouldnt be convinced under any circumstances so why waste my time on you. I will spend my time with people who really care not psuedo scientists like yourself who wouldnt know global warming if it set fire to their house.

Is this name calling, YOU BET, its all your type understand. I am surprised at your admitting to being a Liberal. Most liberals say "We dont need to apply labels" while conservatives are proud of their beliefs.

By By

 

It's all my fault. Every winter my mother would yell at me: "close the door, you're heating up the whole neighborhood".
I think there isn't enough data to make a good decision. Before humans, there were ice and tropical ages. The explanation for those, without political posturing, may give us better explanations.

 

Thanks Jimbo,

Still way busy with these boats. Give me a few days and I'll have at it.

A freebie for you:

http://spacecenter.dk/xpdf/influence-of-cosmic-rays-on-the-earth.pdf

 

Harlemriver man! Do you realise that the only reason you colonials freeze your beer is that you can't make a beer with taste worth a damn! It's got to be freezing cold or you can't drink that lager stuff - now quality English beer has just got to be drunk warm to experience the taste of the hops (it also gets you drunk quicker - no that's because of the strength, American beer is about as stong a flys pee) Sorry buddy, tha'ts the way it is (probably just as well you can make a decent drop of whiskey then ain't it)

 

Good lager is quite drinkable. Buttwiper is not good lager and not drinkable. As with other food and drink, Americans are becoming much more sophisticated in their beer tastes, though this is happening more slowly than it is with other food and drink items since this shift in taste is not in the profit interests of the Giant Beer Companies. So they have redoubled their advertising efforts to keep their product first in the minds of the buying public.

Before the great experiment, US beer was like anybody elses. The current swill traces its roots to the end of that noble (stupid) experiment.

Jimbo

 

Must be me then ' cos I have found that ALL American beer is like Rat's pee (come to think of it Rat's water is probably stronger) with little or no taste whatsoever and it don't matter who makes it (come to think of it most other world lagers are about the same with a couple of exceptions - one from Singapore one French and a couple of German ones and one originated in the Phillapines) Stick to the rum fellas [unless your American and can't drink (there are some Americans who most Definately can drink but they are all Services trained - abroad!)

 

Good reason to have a boat.

 

That had to do with the global warming talk,nice of yall to attack our beer,you keep it up and well have to talk about your women and how they dont shave their legs!

 

Ron son - don't burn me! Only telling it like it is, in addition our women don't shave their legs 'cos they're to pretty to need to and also they keep an edge on their razors for cutting other things (normally off! if they can find cowboys with them! )

 

Sir Safewalrus,

I take complete exception to this statement. Our American beers are considerably stronger than fly piss. On scale with the world I rate ours to at least the strength of a mosquito’s bite!

 

I guess you missed all the data given in the article. These deep ice cores are the most extensive medium of historical climate evidence. They are absolutely loaded with data and evidence of the earths historical climate. An ice core from the right site can contain an uninterrupted, detailed
climate record extending back hundreds of thousands of years. This record can include temperature, precipitation , chemistry and gas
composition of the lower atmosphere, volcanic eruptions, solar variability,
sea-surface productivity and a variety of other climate indicators, and its the simultanity of this information and events that allow paleoclimatists to come up with very extensive and accurate models of the earths climate.

One of the most important climate proxies contained in these ice cores is that of fractionation. Two of the three stable oxygen isotopes contained in water oxygen 18 and oxygen 16 have measurable differences in vapor pressure. That is, precipitaion, in the form of snow, will contain an enriched amount of H20(16) compared to the original proportion in the body of water it was evaporated from. This difference, or fractionation is dependant upon air temperature.

comparing the fluctuation in air temperature with that of paleo-carbon dioxide concentrations shows that they are related. A rise in CO2 levels correlates with a dramatic rise in temperature and vice-versa. unfortunately the resolution of this data is not good enought to tell which comes first, a rise in co2 or a rise in temperature.

"while failing to mention that nothing bad happened during the last several warming periods" The warming period after the last glaciation period induced severe drought in much of the current US. Vast climate change can and has occured due to these warming events, whether natural or caused by our human behaviors. The Nebraska Sand Hills are a perfect example. Radiocarbon dating has shown that about 3000 BP (before present) these sand hills, now covered by sparse vegitation and inactive, were a vast active sand sea, much like those of northern africa at present. The Nebraska Sand sea was the largest recorded, about 35,000 square km and 8 meters thick.

Study of fractionation in deep sea sediments can also yied similar fractionation, however this fractionation can be related to sea level and ice volumes. This information has shown that the earth does cycles through periods of glaciation followed by rapid deglaciation during the current ice age that we are in (an ice age being any time there is ice present on the earth). The last glacial maximum, (period of full glaciation) was about 18000 BP, and was followed by rapid deglaciation. Looking at a graph, it seems that a threshold is met at maximum and minimum temperatures, whereafter the earth rapidly cools or heats. So we know this is a natural process, and scientists are not sure what drives it. There are several theories, most notable of which is orbital theory, which deals with the constant motions of hte solar system and the relationship of our climate to that (very complicated). The point is we know the earth constantly changes, including the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, however we also readily know our human behaviors are increasing this supply of CO2 to the atmosphere beyond the natural rate. therefore we know that once this threshold in the earth's mean temperature is reached it will be followed by rapid glaciation. There are many theories of positive feedback concerning how the temperature is changes so rapidly after a threshold is met, but thats another story...

Not to argue with you, but possibly to shed some scientific light on the situation. Much is still to be learned on the subject, graduate students next door are probably counting CO2 bubble in an ice core from Vostok, Antarctica as I type this.

 

You may be right, fortunately though, i live close enough to the largest brewery in the world to shoot a window out of their offices...Still being in college, beer tastes that much better when you get three free ones a day, even if it's made by coors, after slipping past the tour group straight to the "test lab".

 

I think it's just like that
Ice cores can tell us how the climate was, how the air was and so on, but not WHY it was like that..

 

I never said they did, I was simply adding some knowledge to how the climate proxies are determined. I did however briefly mention the Orbital Theory of Climate change. Very detailed astronomical measurements have been taken over long periods of time. These measuremnts show that the earths orbit is irregular. This irregularity is related to the relative gravitational pull by the moon, sun, other planetary bodies, e.t.c. James Croll (19th Century) and Milutan Milankovitch (early 20th) proposed that these variations in the Earth’s orbit would lead to variations in the receipt of solar energy. These astronomical measurements record the earths anual change in precession ("wobble" if you will), obliquity (tilt relative to the ecliptic plane), and eccentricity. These values cycle every 23 ky, 41 ky, and 100/413 ky respectibly. These orbital variations change the earths insolation, or radiation from the sun recieved, at any given latitude. parametizing the functions of the 3 graphs gives us the function and graph of the combined radiation received, or insolation. As it turns out, this insolation curve matches very closly to the curve given by the recorded marine oxygen isotopic ratios from the same latitude, as well as sea levels and other records. The bottom line of this theory is that variation of insolation stronly affects earth's climate, at least over short (geologically) periods of time. These variations occur due to the perturbations in the earth's orbit.

These processes have been going on for hundreds of thousands of years, and we know the rates of change in CO2 levels of the past, without humans emitting additional amounts into the atmosphere. Now, these CO2 levels are increasing at rates faster than before, it seems logical assume that if nothing else, our habbits are speeding up or throwing this process of. Because CO2 levels, fractionation, and sea levels are no longer in sync with the combined insolation graph.