Global Warming? are humans to blame?

I prefer base 7 for spherical calculations. In base 7, pi is 3.1

 

This is the thread-bare thread, as base as it can be.
So if the 3.
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4641442822772634659470474587847787201927715280731767907 70715721344473060570073349243693 is round or square, its not the place for me.

 

How about if we get things back on track with a few simple realizations. I guess the most important thing to accept is that climate change is happening, it is caused by human activities, and it does effect our everyday lives, and there are things we can do to mitigate its effects. In reference to yachting, I plan on retiring to an area that is unfortunately heavily effected even now by the warming trends. If I were to ignore that i'd likely not be able to enjoy as many days out on the water and might not build a robust enough boat to handle the conditions.

Granted weight is already an issue but by loosing some amenities and beefing up the hulls integrity a bit I might just save myself some swimming in an era when wave heights are already up 30%

from
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100125123233.htm

 

Well Hoyt. I guess this thread is dead. Yays in the yay corner and nays in their corner. Nobody convinces nobody because there's no consensus of data. There are no authorities, just various opinions. More guessing than anything. Computer models output what inputs generate. Early computer term, GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. It's a mute point anyway.
The world is looking for new technologies.
Some will be developed. Who can say in what areas.
Is the world changing? Always.

 

It's easy to keep the debate going.
Criticize the data that supports your side of the argument with the same religious
fervour that you criticize the data presented by the other side.

That's probably a bit too "scientific", though.

 

I'd love to see an objective comparison of data sets.
I don't believe it's possible. Because of the near religious fervor.

 

Yep. Let's move over to the peanut butter thread. There at least is something you can sink your teeth into. This thread is like chewing on a piece of granite.

 

I agree, but only if you include both sides of the argument.

 

there are no two data sets

what in the world would even make you think such a thing.

there is one data pool made up of all pertinent information, in the case of climate science the data pool is so large that an independent organization was assigned to collate the data and present its findings based on the best science available. That would be the IPCC.

Which has done a remarkable job of it given the lack of funding and all the industry efforts to confuse the issue.

So I guess the question is, what two data sets ? is there a lab of leprechauns somewhere and no one knows about there research ?

97% of climate scientists agree that climate change is happening and that human activities are to blame.

 

I'm guessing your issue will soon be over Boston. In the sense that soon and soon is already here for some they will get the price of carbon based fuel above the means of the 99%. This will force fuel conservation of the working class and preserve resources for future generations of the upper classes with means who will still be able to afford it. They already have priced fuel to the point where people haft to think twice or thrice about even driving anywhere unless it's essential.

So don't you fret and really worry yourself too much the market will surely take care of you problem and many of the carbon consuming units will be parked simply because many simply won't have the cash to fuel them..

Gas Prices Signal Tsunami of Inflation

 

Its hardly "my issue" and its not likely to be over till the oil and gas industry has squoze every nickle it can out of as many people as possible, regardless of the environmental cost. Remember virtually the entire issue of Rapid Global Climate Change is the fault of one single industry, oil and gas.

Back when standard oil controlled most of the worlds oil supply one of the things that came up at its monopoly trial was the companies rigging of prices. The seven sisters are just a spin off of the same monopoly and this is just another temporary deliberate gouge to the wallets of the consumer. No way is the oil and gas industry going to price itself out of the energy market sufficiently to actually loose any market share to alternatives. Its just another obvious attempt to challenge the economies of the world and test what "market value" really is.

Its a club
and we aren't in it.

The last thing the oil and gas industry is concerned about is the better interests of the present generation, what makes you think they give a rats *** about future generations.

Its got nothing to do with conservation of a recourse or any sense of responsibility to future generations. Its all about there profit margin. Simple as that.

 

The fact that you can post this and believe it demonstrates how naive you are.

I spent many, many years of my working life designing systems, building them and collecting environmental data. I am at present working part time on analysis of environmental data from instruments in the Southern Ocean.

There is NO "one data pool made up of all pertinent information". That, I can tell you for sure.

If you disagree, please post the URL to the database where I can run my own queries to extract the raw data that others have used as the basis of their papers. If you can't do this, and you most certainly can't because no such repository actually exists, please stop posting such arrant fantasies.

PDW

 

Yah woopdi doo
I have lunch with the guys from NOAA NIST CU and CERI up here in boulder fairly often and I keep my ears open. I also just spoke at a conference yesterday, so we've all got our credentials dont we. Frankly I'm shocked your in environmental information development and not aware of the IPCC information center. How in the world could that have happened ?

contact the IPCC information center
here's there link
http://www.ipcc-data.org/

Cheers
B

In a nut shell the IPCC was formed to collect and collate the mountains of information on climate change that was being developed. Its purpose is to bring the information together into a coherent form that might be understood by policy makers who's backgrounds might not be in the sciences. Scientists from around the world consider it a privileged to submit there papers and have them cataloged by the panel.

The IPCC repository is the single largest data pool for climate research by far.

While there may certainly be information not yet assessed by the IPCC and cataloged into the data pool. It remains the single largest and most accessed data pool available. No other really even comes close. Pretty much all other national institutes include there work with the IPCC information center.

I gotta hand it to you guys
at least your consistent



If you want to talk to a couple of the actual members feel free to contact Kevin Trenberth, Gavin Schmidt, or Michael Mann and they can direct you to the "pertinant" information. I have there sites, and e mails if you need them to further your work. If you have trouble gaining there attention, I might be able to assist you.

The very concept that there's competing data pools is ridiculous, science combines all data available, throws out the highs and lows and goes from there with the "pertinent" data. It may not be all collected "yet" into one huge library, but thats exactly what the IPCC was chartered to do.

Really people, is this the best you can do to deny climate change, argue the size of data pools and complain about nonexistent competing information.

Yikes

 

This is the final nail in the deniers' coffin: "A new study conducted by NASA finds that Arctic ice is melting at a rate far faster than previously expected, increasing the rate of release of a number of deadly chemicals."

http://www.thestatecolumn.com/artic...imate-change-could-lead-to-bromine-explosion/

 

yup there was another one in the news just today about the ocean acidifying faster than at any point in the last 300 million years

http://news.yahoo.com/oceans-acidic-shift-may-fastest-300-million-years-202817121.html

Basically what they are discovering is that the rate of change is accelerating so fast its outpacing the IPCC worst case scenarios. When last I spoke to Gavin Shmidt of realclimate our conversation revolved around the release of the organic carbons. Its kinda the wild card of climate change. Its a subject I bring up a lot anytime I'm speaking with any of the big players in the game. I mentioned it to Kevin Trenberth not long ago as well.

Unfortunately we have two difficult to predict variables that are outpacing even the worst case scenarios, anthropogenic CO2, which last year exceeded worst case predictions on any of the IPCC models and the methane feedback, IE melting permafrost and warming ocean beds, which are exploding with CH4 over just the last five years or so. CH4 is up 150% in just the last hundred or so years most of it in just the last fifteen or twenty.

So even the worst case projections are pretty much void at this point. I recently based a set of projections on exponential doubling alone and came up with a 4°C average global rise by something like 2045, or roughly twice as fast as the IPCC worst case scenario.

We're well on the way to a runaway greenhouse effect. According the the IPCC chair, we have 7 years to curb the present trend in CO2 pollution or miss our target disaster of 2°C increase by 2100. Given there is nothing to indicate that will happen, and that we instead are acceding all worst case projections. It seems reasonable to reassess the estimates based on observed data. In which case an exponential estimate seems to fit the observed data best.

Essentially we're beyond screwed, and staring at a runaway greenhouse effect orders of magnitude worse than in any previous extinction. Its called bend over and kiss your *** goodbye, or your kids *** goodbye. Doesn't really mater which cause its getting ugly fast and its only going to accelerate.

cheers
B

My take on it is to scream bloody murder and at least try and do something about it. Even if it is pretty much a forgone conclusion. At least maybe we can prosecute some of he fools who ran the self destruct programs.