Glen-L Tango as a power cruiser

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by richardf, May 15, 2013.

  1. richardf
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    richardf Junior Member

    Would the subject boat make a good displacement cruiser with a low power outboard? No centerboard, but perhaps ballast in the bilge.
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    After a vast amount of cogitation (approx 30 seconds of looking at pics) it looks like it will be OK, quite beamy so ballast would be unnecessary imo. The question that arises is whether it will track well, sans rudder and centreboard, with just the outboard.
     
  3. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    Why do you want to use a sailboat as a motor boat? it would work okay, but generally a sailboat configuration compromises room and comfort so it can be used as a sailboat. Would not it be better to find something in the same size that was designed as motor boat?

    Or you might consider putting a fixed shallow draft weighted keel and put a reduced size sailing rig on it, so at least you can use it as a sailboat/motor cruiser sometimes.

    Here is a write up on the Tango I ran across looking for a picture of it:
    http://smallcraftadvisor.com/content/glen-l/
     
  4. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    Check out PARs site. He has some very sensible designs that might fit your desires.

    Petros is right about using a sail boat as a power boat. Yes it will work but a design aimed directly at a displacement type power boat will be more efficient and probably more comfortable.
     
  5. richardf
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    richardf Junior Member

    I haven't seen many displacement type power boat designs in the 18-20 foot range, other than Harry Bryan's. I don't understand the suggested "PARs" site. Based on the size of my house, garage and backyard, this size range is about all I can handle. If you can point me toward some designs it would be appreciated.
     
  6. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    How about the Glen-L Two Plus? http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=416

    [​IMG]

    Or the Glen-L Sea Knight (a bit smaller):

    [​IMG]

    PAR is list member and Navel Archiect Paul Riccelli, you might like this one of his stock plans:
    .boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/20129/ppuser/36616

    [​IMG]
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Hi RichardF, welcome to the forum.

    Some good advice already posted. In a nut shell, what's been said is establish a well defined SOR and select the design most suited to it's goals. Picking a sailing design and making adaptations, to convert into a putt putt powerboat, just isn't as sensible as simply choosing a powerboat, as your starting point.

    I'm not sure of your building and design experience, but this type of conversion can be filled with unnecessary difficulties, such as trim, stability, usable internal volume, etc.

    Though I like Cooper Jr, it's a bit too big for your needs, if a Tango is what you can fit in your building space. It would require about a 1/4 ton of ballast, just to sit on her lines and she'd probably be a bit "rolly" compared to a true powerboat of similar size. She also wouldn't have as much internal volume as a real powerboat design, meaning she be a bit cramped.

    I would think a "Bo Jest" a much better Glen-L design for a putt putt. It's less then 18' and has the same beam as a Tango, yet has about 40% more internal volume, so you can carry all your stuff. A 5 HP outboard in a well or a small inboard, will easily push her to 6 knots and a 10 HP will push her to about 8 knots (it can't go any faster). She has over 6' of headroom in the pilothouse and is a quaint and salty thing too.

    The selection of a well matched (to your needs) design, can be as daunting as starting the build itself. It's not a thing you want to rush or "settle" on, as it's just as easy to build a boat you'll hate to operate, as one you'll love. Spend some time looking at lots of designs, after establishing a solid SOR. Make lists, or whatever works for you to whittle down the "contestants". You're not going to hit all of your desires with a stock design, but you can come close enough that with some minor modifications on your part, you can get damn close.
     
  8. richardf
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    richardf Junior Member

    Paul,
    Thank you for answering my question concerning a low power, small displacement wooden hull design. It just doesn't make sense to me to stick a 5 HP outboard on the back of a broad sterned power boat meant to plane with a heavy outboard on the stern. Your Cooper Jr. is a beautiful boat and I would give a lot to have it, but it is way over what I have space for, either to build or to stow. I was just thinking a small sailboat hull would be quite efficient operating at low power because of the hull design. I realize ballast would be required, but I would think there are benefits associated with more weight low down in the hull, when it comes to ride comfort and seaworthiness. I guess I am wrong about that. How about if you drop the requirement to maximize internal volume, does starting with a planing, or semi-planing hull still make sense? Maybe a deep 'V' powerboat is a good starting point, but then you are still dealing with a design that is for a heavy motor.
    What size does a boat need to be to no longer be called a "putt putt"? To me that implies something derogatory about the boat. I did an overnight cruise on Lake Michigan from Muskeegan to Charlevois in a 38' Catalina (a big boat by my standards!) on a dead calm night. We putt putted along at 7 knots (I think his diesel is 40 HP, but it wasn't near wide open). I am not a sail boat guy, so I thought it was a fantastic trip. Slow but very relaxing. That's kinda what I want to do, but on a much smaller, and less expensive scale.
    Thanks again,
    Richard
     
  9. erik818
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    erik818 Senior Member

    I have a putt putt boat myself, an old 7 m double-ender in wood with a 7 hp inboard. I belive the nickname applies to non-planing power boats that in older times had low rev engines that sounded putt putt. I don't know if the nickname putt putt is derogatory.

    By having a transom instead of a double ender you gain usable volume inside the boat. I estimate that my 7 m double-ender has about the same useful internal volum as a 6 m boat with a transom. You loose some fuel efficiency because of the turbulence at the transome. If you're limited as to the length, you'll get more boat if you choose to have a transom instead of a double-ender. The drawback is that you might have to use 10 hp where 7 hp or so would have sufficed with a double-ender. In my mind that's important if you are sailing, but will have a minimal impact on the total cost for a power boat.

    Erik
     
  10. richardf
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    richardf Junior Member

    I just discovered Phil Bolger's Hope. It looks to be in the area of what I am looking for. Not sure about the lapstrake construction which is also what Harry Bryan's 18 footer also uses. Both boats appear similar in design.
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There are plenty of displacement and semi displacement power craft designs to choose from Richard, including Bo-Jest. Hope is a sea skiff derivative hull form and well suited to semi displacement and full plane mode, though a speed limit will be noticed with speeds over 30 MPH. In displacement mode, she'll wallow a bit and steering will be sluggish, without a skeg.

    Harry Bryan's Rambler series is a similar shape and he has enough sense to limit HP to a reasonable figure, in spite of what the USGC says the boat is able to tolerate. The Rambler will be slightly more efficient than the Hope and both a lot more room then a comparable sized sailboat.
     
  12. Outlaw45
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    Outlaw45 Senior Member

    Richard, scroll down to Dr. Peters post on his trailer sailer to power boat. nice post, may be of interest to you.

    Outlaw
     
  13. richardf
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    richardf Junior Member

    I enjoyed reading the thread, thanks.
     
  14. nzboy
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    nzboy Senior Member

    trailer sailer cruiser

    In my younger days I had the same dream. In NZ you can buy a trailersailer for 5-10k with outboard. The attraction of say a 20fter is it has a cabin with 4 berths maybe a sink, cooker chem toilet under vee berths So its easy in sheltered water and some times shallow to have 2 couples plus small kids to go for a day or overnighter with tent. Wives are happy to sit in cabin with small children Husbands can sit in cockpitand motor .Most trailersailers have trouble getting the wife on board because of heel angle, most motorcruisers only have a small poky cabin and little place to sleep .Maintaining a big outboard needs deep pockets .Most of time my father motored to get out and into harbour maybe good 30 minutes. In sheltered water not a problem. Keeping ballast and centre board not a bad idea. Quite possible to have water tanks to slow roll and ballast instead .Also becoming popular is to junk rig with unstayed mast and having a 25hp outboard Some have circumnavigated nz on this set up
     

  15. Outlaw45
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    Outlaw45 Senior Member

    Richard, hope you find what your looking for. do you plan on building Tango or is there one for sale? what kind of water or you planning to run in most of the time? good luck.

    Outlaw
     
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