galvanised or s.s

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Lunde, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. Lunde
    Joined: Jun 2005
    Posts: 9
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Portugal

    Lunde Junior Member

    I am choosing the standing rigging for a new wooden boat.The building plans has 1x19 s.s 6mm, but I prefer 6x19 galvanised fibre core , though to match the 1x19 breaking load of 6mm I would have to go to 8mm 6x19, and then the weight is 20 % more.Would it be completely insane to have that extra weight aloft?How much will it affect stress on mast, on standing rigging?
    cheers!
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 15,817
    Likes: 1,216, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Good quality galvanized is almlost impossible to get. SS is too cheap. Why do you want to change?
     
  3. Lunde
    Joined: Jun 2005
    Posts: 9
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Portugal

    Lunde Junior Member

    how can you tell galvanised is good quality, maybe exept from where it is made?

    I would like galvanised for its good splicing characteristics, no need for expensive terminals or splicing cost if I go for s.s.And also the idea that s.s just breaks without being able to notice if it.Galvanised is more work, don´t mind that, the main point being, if I should carry that extra weight up there in an already slow 5 ton gaff cutter?
     
  4. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 15,817
    Likes: 1,216, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    SS wire splices easier than galvanized because the strands are smoother. 6X19 is available.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 491, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Any weight you can save aloft is worth it, if you can afford it. Galvanized wire use to be the choice of the real cruising sailors of the world, but hot dipped wire is difficult to find and usually of poor quality. This, the weight issue, maintenance concerns and few other things has pretty much everyone turning towards stainless. It's smaller dimension saves windage and weight, both very good things. Available of the wire, fittings and other related products make this the reasonable choice. Yes, stainless can fail in a sudden way, but most cruisers inspect their rigs regularly and know full well when a fitting or wire needs to be replaced.
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 15,817
    Likes: 1,216, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    A problem with galvanized wire is that the zinc sometimes chips while splicing. It heals withing limits, but it still shortens the life of it.
     
  7. Lunde
    Joined: Jun 2005
    Posts: 9
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Portugal

    Lunde Junior Member

    Not many in favour of galvanised, the galvanised that I have at hand, is from Italy, and on the surface of the fibers it looks like the zinc doesn´t cover completely.Its like small chips all over instead of a whole layer covering the wire. It stands in big roll outside in the weather, and there are no signs of ruststains on the fibers.The price is about 1/3 of that of stainsless of same diameter, and with 7X19 wire strand steel core.It is the only galvanised wire I can find around here(portugal), I wonder if it´s worth it?Any ideas?
    The other choice is as above 7X19 stainless wire.
     
  8. Tim B
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 1,438
    Likes: 59, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 841
    Location: Southern England

    Tim B Senior Member

    You're best bet is to go with stainless, there are good reasons for using it as mentioned before in this thread. I've had stainless rigging on my boat for 20 years with no problems. I replaced it recently after several strands failed. Replacement cost for shrouds and halyard was £40 all up for a 7m high mast (3mm dia wire). Don't try to skimp on rigging, if it fails it'll cost you F**K lots more than it would have get it right first time.

    Tim B.
     
  9. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 4,742
    Likes: 78, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 659
    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Ok lets look at this logically and not like a bloody pansy yachtsman! What's the easiest to obtain? Price it! What would the faliure of one wire do (the most vital one, yer forestay)? Can you double it? How good are your splices (quite frankly if you can do reasonable wire splices in this day and age when the majority use talurit [and that's law in some countries] I'm quite surprised you need to ask this question! If you don't do good splices, stay a yachty! Most importantly How do you feel about it! Only you can make the decission!

    Will you go as you seem to want to or will you follow like a small sheep and do as your told? I doubt if the whole lot will fail at the same time, but it's your decission! Read other posts and see what you think of the guys above, for me I'd believe PAR (he is after all a designer) but was it my boat that's not the way I would go, mind you from your description of the state of the galvanised wire I'd have my doubts that way too! but as I said......:confused:
     
  10. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,192
    Likes: 208, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2054
    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Not sure what size vessel we are talking here, but presuming she is a moderate keeler.

    I would prefer galv if you can get a dipped wire coating rather than electroplate, I would rather a solid layup rather than fibre core but the cored rope will do. For the size you mention the 20% mass increase will not be very significant. Use Galv for the backstay and shrouds and use ss for the forestay(s) . Use zinc poured sockets over splicing. You should not splice ss as you cannot get even fibre loads and it will lead to failure.

    Stainless is prone to catastrophic failure and this is the cause of many rigs over the side, simply because you can't inspect it. Even using flourescent die tests and microscopes fails to detect strand separation within the core.

    Galv. steel on the other hand does not work harden does not fail within the layup and gives a very clear indication of end of life.

    Manufacturers have a recommended life for ss rigging in many cases it is 7 years. Galvanised steel will last as long as you want to keep painting it I am happy to certify 20 year old Galv rigging for fishing boat derrick stays.

    In answer to your query about increased stress..... No it won't increase stresses, ironically sufficieant weight aloft can add significantly to roll inertia and reduce dynamic stresses on the vessel. I must say that ultimately how much weight you can wear aloft depends on your vessel stability.

    Interestingly Marchaj laments the loss of weight aloft as a bad move in yacht design.
     
  11. DanishBagger
    Joined: Feb 2006
    Posts: 1,540
    Likes: 46, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 523
    Location: Denmark

    DanishBagger Never Again

    Who is he/they?

    "Marchaj", that is?

    I'd like to read a bit about that.
     
  12. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,192
    Likes: 208, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2054
    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Marchaj wrote various tomes all very well known . Aero Hydrodynamics being a principal and definitive work in the field. As a Southampton institute academic with access to research funds and comprehensive test equipment he devoted much his working career to the physics of boats. One publication of his definately worth reading is "Seaworthiness The Forgotten Factor" he was well known in the industry for proving that certain designs of North sea Trawlers were unsafe despite meeting all stability standards.
     

  13. DanishBagger
    Joined: Feb 2006
    Posts: 1,540
    Likes: 46, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 523
    Location: Denmark

    DanishBagger Never Again

    Cool, thank you, Mike :)
     
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.