Fluid dynamic modeling collaboration

Discussion in 'Services & Employment' started by Johannes2021, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. Johannes2021
    Joined: Feb 2021
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    Location: Doha

    Johannes2021 Junior Member

    I would like to offer largely for free to develop fluid dynamic custom models, codes, and simulations in exchange for help to obtain or build my own yacht.
    Working since 2006 in computational mathematics and fluid dynamics, oceanic and aerodynamic simulations.
    Looking for a collaboration where I deliver fluid dynamic, aerodynamic (sail), or ocean simulations. Structural simulations might also be possible. Possibly an integrated code which accounts for drag forces etc. Have also done some Keplerian simulations and we could do a stellar navigation code/tool. Have also written a lot of codes for turbulence modeling and maybe that can help with the propeller, engine etc.
    In return, I would like help with building my own yacht.

    Some of the methods that I can apply to aid your boat design: finite volume, element or difference numerical methods, Lagrangian particle type fluid dynamic simulations, k-epsilon turbulence modeling, M-O turbulence modeling, meteorologic simulations including solar and sensible heat flux simulations for buoyancy aspects, Fortran, Matlab/Octave, C, Fluent, etc but work largely by writing my own fluid dynamic codes which I love. Have also written a radar tracking GUI code for AIS, marine traffic. Basically, if it's anything computational or with math I can likely do it. Again, in exchange one way or the other, I would like to obtain my own yacht. That could be by online advice, design exchange, kits, a yacht rented in exchange for my continued CFD service, am open-minded.
     
  2. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Perhaps I am wrong and I am not approaching the issue well but, considering that fluid dynamics studies are only a small part of the calculations and studies necessary to design a yacht, and that in many cases these studies are not necessary, I don't know if the exchange you propose is fair. I don't want you to be upset, I have a very high regard for those studies, but, as I say, perhaps the proportion is not adequate.
    Regardless of whether my opinion is correct or not, if I can help you in the design of your yacht, in exchange for something else, I will gladly do so.
     
  3. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the forum Johannes.
    What type and size of yacht do you desire?
    Do you want to build it yourself in Doha?
     
  4. Johannes2021
    Joined: Feb 2021
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    Johannes2021 Junior Member

    True, fluid dynamic simulations fall more into the optimization field in this case. And indeed, if only a "trivial" simulation is conducted, then the exchange might be correspondingly limited and not involve significant material parts. Though from a computational and CFD perspective, a lot could be done and coded, and also some builders might be interested:
    1. An oceanic model to optimize routing and fuel consumption by taking advantage of currents.
    2. 'have past also coded some mesoscale meteorology models. Maybe computing sail drag or turbulent stresses based on wind velocity and fluctuation respectively might be for some a utility.
    3. Simulating exhaust plumes or vessel effluents to ascertain regulatory mixing zone compliance to obtain environmental permits.
    4. A lagrangian wave simulation to simulate dynamic loads during rough sea.
    5. 'have coded a solar simulation based on lat/long & date/time that might be of use for solar power.
    6. Structural sim models are probably already widely available. Maybe an integrated code including CFD outside the hull.
    7. A remote sensing algorithm to get bathymetry estimates from a keel cam in littoral waters for redundancy to the echo.
    8. Maybe we can run a neural net to see if a hydrophone's sound pressure pattern changes depending on the bathymetry that is reflecting propeller sound. Albeit that doesn't look particularly validated and might rather be part of a Yacht's AI/expert system.
    9. I guess AIS and marine traffic tools are already widely available but maybe a desirable feature is missing.
    ...
    Basically one can imagine a growing number of innovations and improvements, with some one might rather get carried away into academia, or have pretty optional outcomes. Maybe, in view of the examples above, some boat builders might have advice or ideas on where to usefully deploy some computational math/physics.

     
  5. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    I'm not trying to change the subject of this thread, just trying to expand the view outside the box a little. My reaction was a little like TANSL's, so another avenue you might consider is the computer gaming and simulation world.

    There are very few decent sailing simulators in the gaming industry. With a good sailing physics engine, one could make enough money to obtain a very nice yacht. Just a thought.

    Please, I'm a interested as bajansailor in the specifics of what you are looking for, although, as a homesteaders in the mountains, I have nothing to offer that would help. Sorry.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  6. Johannes2021
    Joined: Feb 2021
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    Location: Doha

    Johannes2021 Junior Member

    It can be arbitrary small as long as it won't confine me to the Gulf but can still potter around in the Indian Ocean, e.g. up to Kenya, Tanzania, Mauritius, and Madagascar in the West, and could reach Sri Lanka, Maldives, Malaysia, and Singapore in the East.

    Yes, am considering building it, either partially or entirely, here in Doha. A DIY culture of such scale seems to me pretty absent here and I guess it would be pretty unusual to get for a DIY built the required certifications. Hence, I will also be interested in help on how I can get the boat to meet relevant standards and obtain certifications (if any) so I can get through the bureaucracy in this jurisdiction here. The self-building appeals to me but prime objective is the yacht. Hence, I won't hesitate to integrate off-the-shelf components if it's economical and accelerates the building.
    Actually, I probably fail to see all the effort required as I currently wonder: A fiberglass hull - even beauty spas make fiberglass fingernail extensions - in principle it can't be that difficult. The interior carpenting, considering the local low-cost labor, I could subcontract that presumably. The engine would be outboard. How to get it through the bureaucracy is an unknown quantity for me. Probably I am missing a few difficult steps.

     
  7. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    What do local fishermen in Qatar do for their boats to be certified? In the US, a vessel certification is necessary if it is to carry passengers for hire, but otherwise, you can sail what you build.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  8. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    I am not going to deny the advantages of a CFD analysis of a project, nor are we going to discover them now. My point is that, thinking about the knowledge exchange that you propose, you might think that someone could design a complete yacht, without CFD analysis, but nobody could design a complete yacht with only CFD analysis. That is why I say that getting a complete design in exchange for CFD analysis is not a balanced exchange.
    Whatever certificates your country requires for a construction, amateur or not, your administration will give them to you with a well done project, without CFD analysis, but they will not be given to you with a CFD analysis without a project.
     
  9. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Apologies Johannes, but I have a few more questions -
    How much sailing experience have you had?
    Perhaps most important, what is your budget for this project?
    What type of sailing boats appeal to you?

    You say that in principle it can't be difficult to build a fibreglass hull - if you have a mould available, then yes, it is fairly straightforward to build if you have a specification and a crew who know what they are doing. But you won't have a mould available, so that makes things a lot more difficult.

    It might be easier to buy a secondhand yacht - do an 'advanced' search on www.yachtworld.com and type in any constraints that are relevant (eg re size, type, and cost), and see what happens.
    I just did a search using the Middle East as my geographic area, and only a couple of yachts came up that might be suitable for you, and they are in Israel.

    In view of how you would like to sail all around the Indian Ocean, I am thinking that you really want a yacht at least 10 metres / 33' long - but again it all depends on your budget.
     
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  10. Johannes2021
    Joined: Feb 2021
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    Location: Doha

    Johannes2021 Junior Member

    Have just called a friendly dealer for used Yachts and he told me here even private vessels must be yearly certified. And repairs must have been conducted by certified services. I wonder whether there will be any avenue at all. Will follow up on that one.

     
  11. Johannes2021
    Joined: Feb 2021
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    Location: Doha

    Johannes2021 Junior Member

    In terms of experience/operating a boat, well, I was 4 years in the German Navy but that was not always related work and 20 years ago. With respect to some key tasks I probably would have to start from zero. The theory I could probably learn rather quickly but practical parts not that rapid.

    I wondered whether a ceiling of $ 100 k would work for a DIY case. I have seen some used Yachts below that but they seem not ocean-worthy.

    Regarding the design choices, I am indifferent on whether it involves a sail but, absent a sail, the range seems to be tightly limited for small vessels. The engine should be outboard to preclude difficult maintenance. I wonder whether the fuel-saving could be partially retained with "simply" a parachute type sail instead of an expensive mast etc but that of course does not permit to sail into the wind. Also, operating a chute might require more attention. However, I am wary of the stability implications of a mast with respect to the center of gravity. Preference given to a modular and off-the-shelf architecture to simplify maintenance. Also, wondered about the implications of using two smaller hulls for a Katamaran in regards to manufacturing, i.e. being able to use a smaller mold twice etc. I wonder whether a cabin should be out of fiberglass itself for compartmentalized buoyancy, i.e. to detangle buoyancy from hydrodynamics. I realize I should read some accident statistics prior to approaching design questions. I like the idea of looking at separating the structural, buoyancy, and hydrodynamic functionality of the hull but that might compromise performance. My impression was that also the lateral aerodynamic drag should be minimal. I have to learn how different design aspects affect stability in different wave regimes.

    Thanks for looking at the used Yacht market, if I have to sail it through Suez and the Red Sea, then I might also consider the Mediterranean market. I am not hopeful though that there will be a used Yacht for $ 100 k that can sail the Indian Ocean.

     
  12. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Johannes, with a budget of $100,000 (I assume that this is US$?) you have a huge range of good second hand boats to choose from,

    Here is a search I did on Yachtworld for sailing yachts in the Mediterranean - I put in some arbitrary constraints of built between 1980 and 2015, and with prices between US$ 60 - 100,000.
    1980 (Sail) Boats For Sale https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?toYear=2015&Ntk=boatsUK&fromPrice=60000&slim=quick&is=false&enid=0&type=%28Sail%29&rid=151&cit=true&boatsAddedSelected=-1&hmid=0&fromYear=1980&luom=126&searchtype=advancedsearch&toPrice=100000&ftid=0&sm=3&currencyid=100&No=0

    And 915 boats came up - and of these, probably 80% (at least) will be perfectly capable of sailing around the Indian Ocean, although most will probably need a minor re-fit first.
    Buying a boat 'off the shelf' is infinitely easier than designing and building one yourself - and $100,000 will not buy you very much in the way of materials and equipment for a new boat now.
    New sailing yachts depreciate enormously nowadays, in similar fashion (almost) to cars, because there are simply so many of them out there now.

    Re all of your concerns above, you are overthinking / worrying about them far too much.
    Forget an O/B motor (for an ocean cruising yacht, an inboard diesel is more sensible).
    Forget trying to use kites or parachute type sails (unless it is a spinnaker that is designed to be part of the existing rig).
    Do consider a sailing catamaran - they have a lot going for them.
    Don't worry about stability on a production boat - if the Builders built a run of boats, and none have capsized or sunk so far, the odds are good that yours will not do so either (unless you do something foolish along the way).
     
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  13. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Bajansailor is giving great wisdom here. I have read a lot of his posts and he definitely knows a thing or two about it.

    With your budget, you should be able to expand your search to anywhere you can sail home from. I think there are some great boats to be bought for great prices on Southeast Asia.

    First, though. Consider taking a sailing class or two.
    https://business.google.com/v/qatar...wf-5JWsTSknYmLnJJhaS25c0hlsQLfcEaAqG9EALw_wcB
    I can't speak for the quality of this school, but I found the above school advertising right in your neighborhood.

    After spending some time around boats, you will have a much better grasp of what you want.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
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  14. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    +1 re Will's excellent suggestion to start off by taking a sailing class.
    I would further suggest that you start small - in a dinghy, not a big yacht - as you will learn much faster, and get a much better appreciation of how a sailing boat works.
    In a dinghy you have to rely on your senses - you do not have an instrument on the helm station to tell you where the wind is coming from, and how strong it is.
    You steer with a tiller, and you use your weight to balance the boat, and you learn to feel the wind on your cheek - and you will quickly learn when it is too much, and when you cannot keep the dinghy stable by leaning your weight out.
    You then need to either reduce the amount of sail, or engage some more crew as ballast.

    If you still like sailing after doing an intensive (they are 'full on') dinghy sailing course, then you can work your way upwards.
    And when you have your 40' yacht in the Indian Ocean, and your instruments all fail (for whatever reason), you will be grateful that you learned to tell where the wind is coming from, and if the water is clear, how to gauge how deep the water is.
    It would be useful though to have an emergency hand held GPS (or two) to find out where you are - this would be easier than learning celestial navigation..... :)
     
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  15. Johannes2021
    Joined: Feb 2021
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    Location: Doha

    Johannes2021 Junior Member

    Wow, thank you. I didn't imagine the delta in pricing between the Gulf and EU to be so significant. Unclear to me why there are then not more transfers to the Gulf but seems that the local market is really determined by an upper segment that is uninterested in used ones.
    Seeing the moderate EU prices for used yachts I even regret that I didn't buy one earlier.

    I will read up on how to assess the state of the hull prior to proceeding. Will an inboard engine not entail more expensive maintenance and replacement? I wondered whether, if needed, the faulty inboard can simply be augmented with a new outboard but a local said that this wouldn't pass the yearly certification. Will inquire that with the concerned office and yeah, I will take a class.

     
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