First boat help?

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by Ann Camille, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. Ann Camille
    Joined: Jan 2021
    Posts: 4
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    Location: Alabama

    Ann Camille New Member

    All- we are looking at our first boat purchase. Both only have basic understanding but learning every day. We have been told to steer clear of "exposed to saltwater" particularly since we are newbies but really like this boat. Red flag? I assume he means the radar arch and this would have to be repaired. But what else should we look for?

    Also looking for someone to look at this one on our behalf in the Knoxville area outside of the marina staff.
    Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

    Ann

    2008 Rinker 320 Express Cruiser, Knoxville Tennessee - boats.com https://www.boats.com/power-boats/2008-rinker-320-express-cruiser-7574684/

    Thank you for your email and interest in the 2008 Rinker 320. This boat is available and located at Concord Marina in Knoxville. Overall the boat is in good condition. The seller is the original owner. It has been in saltwater so I wanted to give you a heads up in case you were looking for an all freshwater boat. There is some pitting on the aluminum arch and there are a few area on the gel coat where you can tell it has been exposed to the salt air. The cabin is very clean as area the other areas of the boat.
     
  2. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    Once a boat is placed in saltwater the aging clock starts ticking much faster. Everything in the boat will be affected, anything made from metal can have a shortened life span. All wiring and electronics, engines and there cooling systems, etc.

    Gel coat is probably the least affected thing on a boat exposed to saltwater, gel coat is far more affected by UV ray intensity.

    A boat from Florida will have been affected by salt and sun to a far greater degree than a similar boat in Alaska.

    A fresh water only boat can have a corrosion free life for a far longer period of time.
     
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  3. Ann Camille
    Joined: Jan 2021
    Posts: 4
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    Location: Alabama

    Ann Camille New Member

    Thank you for such clear info! We will have a Marine Survey but I want to have a better understanding of the things I should look for first.
     
  4. tpenfield
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: Cape Cod, MA

    tpenfield Senior Member

    Lots of boats are kept and used in salt water. Maintenance is the key to success. Certainly not a red flag, but something that requires sufficient inspection.

    Personally, from my experience, I've had as much difficulty with fresh water boats as I have with salt water boats.
     
  5. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the forum Ann - re how you are in Alabama, will you be using the boat in fresh or salt water?
    If the latter, will you be 'dry storing' her ashore when not in use, or will she stay afloat?

    What is your intended usage of the boat? Will you want to predominantly pootle along sedately, with reasonably good fuel economy, or do you like cruising on the plane doing 20+ knots?
    Are you particularly drawn to 'sports cruisers' like this Rinker, or are you open to other suggestions?
    Will you be mainly doing day trips, or will weekends and holidays be spent on the boat as well?

    If you are using the boat in salt water, and you are not dry storing her, I would be wary about buying a boat with outdrive legs - if there was a boat that could do the job equally well with outboard engines, for a similar price and in similar condition, that would be my first choice.
    And if you are not speed merchants, then a boat with a diesel (or two even) could be considered.
    Here are a couple of interesting single diesel engine boats on the Gulf Coast for sale -
    2004 Albin Family Cruiser Power New and Used Boats for Sale - https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2004/albin-family-cruiser-3743713/

    2000 Mainship 30 Pilot Soft Top Power New and Used Boats for https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2000/mainship-30-pilot-soft-top-3745471/

    These were part of this search I did on Yachtworld for power boats (of all types) on the Gulf Coast, between 30 - 34', 2000 - 2010, and up to $80,000 in cost.

    2000 (Power) Boats For Sale https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?is=false&sm=3&searchtype=advancedsearch&Ntk=boatsUK&ftid=0&enid=0&toYear=2010&type=%28Power%29&hmid=0&boatsAddedSelected=-1&slim=quick&currencyid=100&fromPrice=60000&rid=105&luom=126&toLength=34&cit=true&fromLength=30&toPrice=80000&fromYear=2000&No=40

    I used the UK site as it allows me to do an 'advanced' search; for some reason www.yachtworld.com only allows me to do a very basic search.
    You can easily change the constraints in an 'advanced' search.
     
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  6. Ann Camille
    Joined: Jan 2021
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    Location: Alabama

    Ann Camille New Member

    WOW and thanks! What an amazing forum.
    I will try to answer best I can. Mostly fresh water for us. We would very much like to reach a point we can travel to Mobile and into the Gulf, so saltwater, but thats a few years down the road. For now it will be learning, navigating the Tennessee River and seeing if we love spending a few days at a time on the water. Also the reason we want to go with that range of cost and age since this is our first boat.
    I think we will be traveling leisurely for now. Again, we have much to learn. Rob (other half) may want to crank it up but not the overall goal. Day trips moving into weekend trips as soon as we are comfortable with our skill level. We live in freshwater area so I guess my answer is fresh water but not dry storing. We would honestly like to utilize all year? Insofar as the Rinker, what happened was with a few weeks of searching Rob and I kept coming back to the same model of boat on our own. Seemed like a good sign? A friend suggested a Chappy (?) but we didnt see one in our range. I will absolutely look at the link and search results, thank you again for that too! And we are very open to any and all suggestions from this experience group.
    Our bottom line is we both still work, so we are taking our first step into this world with the hope that in 10 years we retire and take on a big adventure like the Great Loop.
     
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  7. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    The SOR is the best way to determine the right boat for you.

    What is intended use?
     
  8. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Barry Senior Member

    Certainly make your offer to purchase "subject to a marine survey satisfactory to the purchasers"

    You should include "subject to a mechanical inspection" and find a marine mechanic check the drives and engines. Marine Survey for the entire boat often exclude many areas of responsibility but they will often catch
    main problems. Require them to supply any invoices for repairs that have been done within the last 2 years and ask for the name of the mechanic or company that has done the maintenance.

    On gas engines, due to their relatively low price, you may not want to go to the extent of having the lubricants checked for contaminants. With diesels, it is a cheap prospect. The mechanic takes oil samples from the engines, transmissions and drives and they are sent out for a spectrographic analysis. For twin diesels with transmissions, the last time we went this route, the cost was under $200. You buy a kit with say 10 sample bottles, you or the mechanic, sends them away and within a week the results will come back and CAN point to serious issues. A qualified mechanic may seal off the main engine to atmosphere vents and install a blow by gauge to check blow by or perhaps run a compression check on the cylinders. Confirm the hours on the engines.

    The subjects clauses are easy to remove even if you decide that you are moving ahead without them. Depending on the year of the boat, if you are financing, a bank may require a survey and an insurance broker may require the same.

    Another subject clause should be a "sea trial satisfactory to the purchaser".
    With a sea trial when a specific time is arrived at, be there an hour ahead of time to ensure that the vendor has not had a chance to warm up the engines. Ie you want to be around when they start up the engines.

    And last but not least, there will probably be a forum for the make of boat that you are considering. Register and look over issues that other customers have had with the boats. If there is not a forum, just Google,
    "Problems with Clinker/Rinker/ etc Boats" Consider that a complainer may be just the type to complain without grounds but if there are many similar complaints about a specific topic, there may be merit behind
    the complaints
     
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  9. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    I've lived on Salt and fresh water bodies of water and boated extensively in both.

    Saltwater is a far more hostile environment for every component in the boat.

    It's not uncommon for Florida or gulf boats and motors to be marketed further North to get a better sale price.

    In Fl the price is significantly lower due to Salt and sun, plus a 12 months season of boating, so the same boat may have far more hours on it.

    Go north and inland and there are fewer Saltwater boats, plus they tend to be used only about 3 months of the year.

    There can be a huge difference in the usable life span left in the boat depending on where it came from.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  10. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Lake Superior boats, in May 15-30, out Labor Day to Halloween. 3.5-5 months typ which means use at 50% is very low; Erie and Michigan not much different; cept I'd avoid buying when the boats are frozen; better to see troubles thawed out.

    Good advice, just have to echo.
     
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  11. Ann Camille
    Joined: Jan 2021
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    Location: Alabama

    Ann Camille New Member

    I understand an SOR for Army systems but not sure what that is for a boat?
    Intended use is first time boaters, day trips, then weekends. Fishing. Generally exploring the boating world.
     
  12. fallguy
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Statement of requirements. That boat is certainly capable of meeting those requirements. If you wanted to do the Great Loop; not as good, for example.
     
  13. KeithO
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    Location: Michigan

    KeithO Senior Member

    Ann, be aware. if the boat falls into the "express cruiser" category, it means a few things.
    1) It is a relatively fast boat
    2) It will have a planing hull design (usually - could also be semi planing)
    3) if you look at the stern, it will end abruptly, squared off and when you observe it either stationary or at low speed, several inches of the transom will be immersed in the water.
    4) it will have quite a large and thirsty engine installed and will need all that horsepower

    I see in your case 2x 350 engines... Imagine driving something like a Mustang at 130mph and then doubling the fuel burn.. That is what you are looking at with that setup.

    Now if you have never owned any sort of boat before, its possible that you may think that any boat behaves like a speed boat and can do 30-50mph. But understand that it is much more expensive to enjoy this game with a large heavy boat than it is with a 16ft trailer able boat. Another thing to bear in mind is that the large quantity of these boats were bought at a time when the average american disposable income was higher than it is today, gas may have been 25% of the price that it is today. So the original owners probably had no problem affording the hobby. Especially if they really didn't go too far and used the boat as their waterside condo.

    If doing a large number of miles a day is not your priority, or you are OK with taking it slower at a speed of 7kt (50-70 miles a day) then you can find boats of the displacement type which will have engines 1/10th of the size of the express cruiser that are much more economical and typically have much more range too. Diesel is safer, the engines generally last longer and certainly are more economical. Usually a single diesel gives the best space to access the engine for maintenance. Twins are heavier, 2x the number of things to go wrong, 2x the cost. Not to be ruled out, but a consideration.

    There are also numerous ways that the propeller may be driven. Outdrives have 2 sets of 90 degree gears, multiple sets of bearings and are quite an efficiency penalty. Very expensive to get repaired also. Direct drive, with a transmission, often a velvet drive. Considerably simpler than the outdrives, smoother to shift but no inherent trim capability (for a planing boat). Trim tabs would be needed. Also possible are Jet drives. Not seen as often as one might expect, they are actually used on many ferries on Lake Michigan/Superior.

    Think carefully about your likely use case. Big powerful gas boats are expensive to feed and will not bring as much money as an equivalent diesel boat. To give you some thought: at part load, 200hp per motor you will be consuming 180lb of fuel per hour or 28.6 gal/hr. At that pace, the 165 gal fuel tank will give you a run time of just less than 6 hours. And cost $380 to refill at current $2.30/gal for regular.

    Now to offer a comparison, Bayliner 32xx.com http://bayliner32xx.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=1&tabid=19
    If you scroll to the bottom of the page, this is a similar boat, similar size. It has 2x Hino diesel engines of 135hp each. The owner reports at 14kt a consumption of 8.4gal/hr of diesel which is somewhat more expensive per gal than gasoline. If he slows down to 10kt he has a consumption of only 5.2 gal/hr. Had the boat been a displacement type, the higher speeds would not have been possible but fuel economy at the bottom end would be considerably better and the engine itself much smaller and less expensive to maintain.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  14. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Re the Tennessee River, do they have any speed restrictions on it for pleasure boats?
    Tennessee River - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_River

    And I am wondering if you might find a lot of flotsam / jetsam being washed down river like tree trunks et al?
    If so, then it would be worthwhile looking for a vessel with a keel or skeg(s) to protect the propeller(s) - if you run over a log at 20 knots on a boat equipped with a pair of outdrives or standard shaft drives, they are not going to be too happy.

    Keith has mentioned the (relative) economy of diesels above - going a bit more left field, you could also keep an eye out for a pocket trawler yacht.
    Here is a fairly typical example.
    1999 Camano Trawler Power New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1999/camano-trawler-3742057/
    If there is commercial traffic like tugs / barges on the river I guess you would not have to be too concerned about air draft under bridges?

    And a trawler type of yacht would probably be a good choice for doing the Great Loop later on - although by then you will probably be thinking that something a bit bigger than 32' would be nice, depending on what budget is available then.
     

  15. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Barry Senior Member

    Test Results

    RPM MPH KNOTS GPH MPG NMPG STAT. MILE NM DBA
    3000 18.5 16.1 18.4 1.01 0.87 136 118 80
    3500 28.6 24.9 20 1.43 1.24 193 168 80
    4000 34.7 30.2 26 1.33 1.16 180 157 82
    4500 40.3 35 34 1.19 1.03 160 139 88
    5000 45.6 39.7 42 1.09 0.94 147 127 87
    5100 46.2 40.2 44 1.05 0.91 142 123 87
    [​IMG]
    This information came off Boat Test, a free site, that you can register for and get important information about performance etc of many types of boats. What is most important is the miles per gallon at various speeds
    because that is the indicator of how much money you are burning per hour. I have omitted the first part of the table as I wanted to show that the best MPG for this boat (****albeit this was twin 300 hp) is at 3500 rpm running at 28.6 MPH giving you 1.43 miles per gallon. (incidentally burning 20 gallons per hour but ignore this)

    Evidently there is a Rinkers Express Forum. There are also sites that show fuel economy with various drives for the Rinker boats with various power.
     
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