First "BIG" project...........22' flats skiff.

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by Capt. Offshore, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. Capt. Offshore
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 3
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    Location: crystal river, fl

    Capt. Offshore New Member

    Hello Everyone,

    I am a "newbi" to the forum and to building a complete boat. I have modified many with some great results and some down right horror stories. I have been reading different forums and boat design plans and really cannot find an answer to my question :

    The "Project" - I have found a hull in a junk yard (early `80's modle) that is pretty much trashed, but I really like the design and foot print it would have in the water. I would like to pop a mold off of it and then add some of my own features (tunnel, cut-chines etc.) to it, and then layout the inside to fit my needs.

    Question - Do I have to have a core (plywd / foam) in order to make a hull ? Or, can I just pop a copy off of this junker - lay-up the different types/layers of glass - then after it has cured pull it off the junker and flip it over and begin inletting my stringers, bulk heads, decking etc. ? ! ? !

    With some smaller projects I have done (much thinner glass) after I pulled the object off the mold it tweaked / oil caned a little. Is this something that would happen on this project ? ? ? There will be several layers of glass used in the hull thickness such as : 18 oz. Roving, 9 oz. Cloth and Biaxial 17 oz. w/ 8 oz. matt. I DO NOT like to have wood of any type in a hull and for a
    8' X 22' bottom, 1/2'' core foam really is not in the budget. I will be putting the foam to work on the decks and walk-around gunnels though.

    Any words of wisdom would be greatful ! ! ! Thank you.
     
  2. Itchy&Scratchy
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Oxford & South Africa

    Itchy&Scratchy Senior Member

    First question , should be-just how much of a junker is it?? otherwise you'll have the originators knocking on your door and suing your *** into the next millenium.:p

    As far as I know, you need to change the design by a minimum of 10 percent to 'claim' it as your own.this might be different in each country -Make changes to the hull, resurface and then take your mould.

    have fun
    J
     
  3. Capt. Offshore
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: crystal river, fl

    Capt. Offshore New Member

    I&S,

    I understand the copyright thing. I have looked the company up and they are nowhere to be found. The 10% change would be very acheiveable, I just want to know if it is feesable to do a male molded hull with just glass and no core mateial ? ! ? ! ?
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    What boat (make and model) are we talking about? The company may be dead, but there may still be responsible parties interested in the previous efforts, like bill collectors or attorneys.

    Yes, you can layup over the hull, but it's not the easiest way of doing things. This is because the existing hull may not make a good mold and you'll be building more "boat" then necessary. By this I mean you'll make changes the the first hull, then arrange for this to be a mold, then mold the new hull, pop it off the mold hopefully without difficulty then begin to finish the new hull.

    There are several "one off" methods to get a hull that to me seem a faster and easier way to go, particularly in light of potential legal harassment.
     
  5. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    No. It's not a good idea to begin with.
    It might be possible but not very easy. Assuming it comes off the old hull easily in one piece or less (;) ) you'll then have to flip it and put it in a pre-made cradle to support it while you put all the inside structure in, stringers, bulkhead, transom, etc. Then you'll have to flip it back upside down and the hard work will begin. You'll have to sand, fill, sand, fill, sand, fill, sand, fill, etc for 1 to 300 hours, depending on how smooth you laid up all the glass on the outside of the old hull and how far from a cardboard box covered in duct tape you want the finished boat to look like.

    Backtracking a little bit, I'm assuming the old junker you found in the junkyard, maybe sitting for years on the ground, maybe full of water and junk with all the old internal structure rotted out, has retained the original designed shape and not developed sags or hollow spots or become lopsided. That could cause problems once the boat is in the water.
    No, but, it very easily COULD happen and I would be surprised if it didn't.
     
  6. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    As far as the legal copy law thing, I seriously doubt if a person only made 1 copy of a boat for personal use, the chances someone would notice and lawyers would get involved seem pretty infinitesimal.

    For personal use and no money (sales) involved, is it even illegal?
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yes, it's illegal, even for a single copy. Some makes and models are pursued much more vigorously then others.

    I don't have a problem with cored construction and if done right,can help make fairing a lot easier. I do agree that "splashing" (what Capt. Offshore is suggesting) as described, isn't the best way or easiest (read least costly or time consuming) method to get a hull. This as mentioned, assumes the hull isn't warped, distorted or otherwise deserving of being in the junk pile.
     

  8. Capt. Offshore
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: crystal river, fl

    Capt. Offshore New Member

    So.......male molding / splashing would not be a very good way to acheive what I have in mind ! ? ! ? Then the other option is to take measurements of the junker, lay-up a frame and stitch-n-glue this thing together. A lot more work involved than what I thought. Other than two large holes from a fork lift in the bottom, some mildew and a open transome where the outdrive was and the damn thing built like a tank with a 1 5/8" thick bottom, the outside hull is good. The inside and top cap is totally gone ! ! ! The boat is a Sea Star made in Miami, Fl and looks a lot like the 24' Morgan or even a Proline Flatback with a bottom measurement of 100" in the stern. I think this would make a great guide boat if I could trim the profile down a bit, add a tunnel and lighten it up by several hundred pounds ! ! !

    If anyone has any other options / ideas that could help, PLEASE....... let me know. Thanks again.
     
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