Ferrocement Corrosion

In this case, however, it sounds as if the rational restoration process would be to discard the existing ferro cement structure and replace. It's happened to enough wood boats over the years, and it's routine in 'restoring' vintage aircraft.

 

Ive said it before on these forums, the biggest problem with Ferro Cement construction is not the materials or method themselves, it is a fine method for boats of sufficient displacement, no, it is the way that it was marketed as a cheap way for joe blow to build a boat and from a material cost this was so but what the promoters neglected to say was that a higher level of skill was required than many other methods and this led to all the piles of crap that eventually, (along with rising material costs) gave the method the bad name it enjoys today. A ferro boat built by a professional yard or skilled backyard builder is not the one people remember because they cant tell the difference from any other material. I have seen some magnificent examples that anyone should be proud to own.
In the case of this boat, even assuming that the armature was built to spec, a bad plaster job appears to have essentially rendered the boat not worth repairing.
Unfortunatly even hiring a professional plastering team did not assure a sound job as even if they are proficient at applying stucco to a wall of a house, unless they were an experienced boat plastering team you were probably better off doing it yourself. Really the responsibility fell on the builder to present the plastering team with a metal armature that is assembled to the designers spec, properly prepared and faired, and this is where a lot of skill was involved as none of the materials used has any self fairing properties so a lot of effort is need to get a nice fair structure, i did much of my fairing at night where i could take advantage of lights and shadows as well as, of course wood fairing battens like for any other hull. I should point out that, a nice fair armature is extremely important with a ferro hull, not just for appearance but because if it isn't the plasterer will try to fair it with plaster adding a lot of weight and, just like a high fiber fraction is important to a fiberlass hull, a high steel to cement fraction is important in achieving a strong, thin and light (realative) hull with FC, there should be only a thin layer of cement over the mesh as cement is not strong when unreinforced and it is heavy.
There are two methods for plastering a FC hull, the original method was known as the one shot method, the downsides of this method are
1/ The need to get the whole job done in one day which is not easy on large hulls.
2/ A lot more skilled plasterers needed as you need people inside and out making sure you don't get voids behind the stringers, then tooling it off..
3/ It is difficult to avoid voids behind the stringers.
The second method was the two shot method pioneered by New Zealand professional plasterer, designer and boatbuilder and this became the prefered method down under. With this method the plastering was done in a number of hits, slow curing while keeping it continuously wet in between. The advantages of the 2 shot method is that because you are only plastering half way through in the first shot, letting it cure but keeping it constantly wet, before coming back and plastering the inside as a second shot. it is a lot less rushed and you have time to make sure you get a good finish but most importantly, you eliminate the possibility of voids behind the stringers and by working only from the outside you eliminate the need for setting up scaffolding inside and the risk of people inside the cage putting it out of fair. After sufficiently curing the first shot you go over the inside and knock off the nubs and call in the team to plaster the inside, they use a cement wash or chemical tie coat and then, again have plenty of time and a nice hard surface to work against so can do a nice job.
On my hull we used the two shot method and i used Ev Sayer and his team with myself and some fellow Ferro builders acting as the grunts mixing the plaster and delivering it up to the team. With a nice fair armature and a team of plasterers who specialized in boat plastering and understood the importance of not applying plaster for fairing purposes i ended up with a 40ft hull that averaged only 11/16" thick and was as light as the method allowed. The two shot method became pretty much the method of choice down under while the one shot method remained the dominant method in the US i believe.
So, there are so many possible pitfalls waiting for the unwary such as an improper mix, voids behind the stringers, too much unreinforced thickness and so on that if not recognized and removed before it has started to set it is too late to remediate.
I do understand the reluctance to accept it as a total loss and it may be possible to save it as long as you understand that you may have to try something totally unproven and are willing to think outside the box and it might be throwing good money after bad.
What you could do is chip away the plaster in the worst areas and have a look at the armature, do a search and find out what the original spec was and visually make sure all the steel is in there. What is the condition of the steel an mesh? understand that the stringers WILL be rusty, they are meant to be, the idea is that plaster adheres better to the rust than the mill scale and oils from processing and also the galvanized mesh should be oxadized rather than shiny. Also chip away areas where it looks good, is the plaster hard or crumbly? If all looks good you could wash out the bad areas, lightly sandblast the whole hull, thoroughly dry it and glass it using the Vaitse method , he was an old school wooden boat builder and surveyor and would glass old carvel planked boat when they were beyond regular repair methods but where his method differed from the usual methods that don't work is he essentially laid up an actual structural glass skin over the wood that was strong enough to overcome the movement of the wood hull so essentially the original hull became a mold. You probably don't need that much glass as you don't have a hull that is working in a seaway. Or maybe you could have a 1/4" layer of polyurea sprayed over it, Just brainstorming here, not recommending it. As someone else said, anything can be saved, only you can decide if its worthwhile.

Steve.

 

Steve, I agree with everything you are saying about cement boats. I have spent the last four years cruising on one after all.

However, I think any attempt to save one in this condition would be crazy for an organization on a budget that is looking for a boat to take paying young people offshore. The cost of any substantial work will quickly exceed the cost of just buying another boat that is more appropriate for their usage. This is not the kind of repair that can be managed with volunteer labor. Even if they did manage to repair the hull there would always be a question hanging in the air as to the actual strength of the boat. Not to mention all the regulatory problems of carrying passengers and insuring a ferro boat. With some luck they could pull most of the gear from the current boat and move it to something in better condition.

The other big question is why bother to "restore" an old Samson, this is a very different situation than throwing a bunch of money at a classic wooden boat with great history and pedigree.

Too me it sounds like they are about to get a rather harsh lesson on the true cost of "free" boats. Hopefully they will learn from this and realize they need to hire someone who knows what it takes to run a commercial passenger vessel to help them with the search for a more appropriate vessel.

 

Yes, you will notice I made a point of saying I was not recommending it. A friend of mine just got done bringing a free boat back from the dead. He got the sound but tired old Redwing 30 for free, paid $2000 for the trailer and then proceded to spend maybe $20k to create a good old cruiser that is a long was from pristine and would be worth no more than half that if he were to sell it. Hell, ive done the same thing myself. It makes even less sense with a Ferro boat.

Steve

 

I have done this as well, and just bought another project so I can start all over again. I got a little smarter and am doing an aluminum hull this time though

 

Thanks for all your advise. You will be happy to know we are not going to try and repair the boat but are looking to salvage as much of the parts as we can. We have 2 masts that I am trying to come up with a decent price for. They Charleston Spar deck stepped inmast rolling furlers. One is 52' with a 16' boom and the other is 43' with a 15.5' boom. They are in good shape as the boat has not been used much. Any ideas on what I might be able to get for them?

I've been searching the internet but only found 2 other 43' rolling furler masts with out a boom for around $3,500. Would $10,000 be an good starting point for the pair? The sails and standing rigging would come with them as well.

 

That sounds rather high. Finding a boat that has the exact rig is going to be very difficult. Whoever buys it will have to modify it for their needs. $3500 asking price seems more reasonable.

 

It really depends on finding a person who can use them. To the right person I don't think 10k would be unreasonable for in mast furlers as long as they are really in decent shape and are reasonably modern spars. The good news is that they are furlers so your audience is not just some guy building a boat in his back yard (few and far between these days) but perhaps someone looking to upgrade. No matter what you ask someone is going to want to chew you down.

Steve.

 

The value for masts is all over the place, guess on a price and be ready to haggle.

Even if little used the older style roller furlers will be worth a lot less than a newer one since there have been some pretty big improvements in the last 30 years.

If they are in good shape the sails add a bit of value. The standing rig is essentially worthless except for the tangs and turnbuckles.

If the boat has lead ballast there is a nice chunk of money there. Going to need some heavy equipment to smash the hull up though, don't forget to budget a decent bit for disposal costs.

 

You need something like this http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/4704959803.html

 

You can sure design a nice looking boat when you have length. Well see if the price is still "non negotionable" a year from now when its still not sold and hes paying for docking.

 

a $ponge

 

Wow, that thing may be even farther into the negative value range than a poorly built Sampson.

 

A bit of peeling paint can make a beautiful boat look pretty bad, its not that old and built with Alaskan yellow cedar so it may not be too bad. I think its a very nice looking boat with a lot of features I really like such as Portugese bridge and covered side decks, too bad its about 65ft too long for me.

Steve.

 

these boats are very well built , worked on 2 of them, really take a beating in heavy seas