Fer-A-Lite

sportydog, thanks for the answer mate, I guess 2008 was not a good year actually for anyone selling a boat, so we will have to ignore the sell price unfortunately. Ta, John

 

Yes, that was my method, and yes Insurance companies DO insure yachts built of the Fer-A-Lite method. A good experienced and certified surveror is recommend by insurance companies, another Co. is BoatUS. Another great feature of fer-a-lite is saving older boats/yachts of wood. The founder/inventor of the product was Platt Monfort, I knew him well, we worked for years intesting, designing, experimenting. There was a yacht in the early 1970's in the FL Keys that was sheeted with his products, called "The African Queen", don't know if it's still there. He had the knowledge, a chemist. As a young man, he loved WOOD boats and wanted to insure their longivity. All sailors I sure remember a product called "Git-Rot". He's the one that came up with this great product. As I continued to build in those years, he got the building bug and built a beautiful 45' Hershoff Mopjack. I have many photos of those wonderful times.

 

Some others that were saved

Yes, we have several photos of the African Queen being sheathed as well as another wooden motor yacht "Cosmos" which we have a full series of photos on the sheathing.

There is also a bit of a famous yacht known as the Jubilee by Joel vanSant, out of the NorthEast that was saved from the trash heap by a gentleman that sheathed it, sailed and lived on it for several years before selling it again.

Both the African Queen and Jubilee were last known of in the keys, but I have not been able to find anyone with recent knowledge of either of them.

 

That doesn't make sense to me. Isotropic vs composite is chalk and cheese.

I've binned the material the Australian agent sent me on Feralight along with pictures of the vessel unfortunately. I did see it for sale again last year so it's still around but it was glassed on the outside after I looked at it.
It built by an engineer in NSW but I don't think he was very impressed with the result. And that hull really did have problems. That's why I'm concerned about the marketing of this product without any real data and why I knew of it and why I'm raining on your parade (sorry).

What you have is that a few boats that were built that way in the 70's have survived intact. But how many have since been dumped because they didn't work? If you just look at survivors you skew your statistics. Whether its a boat building material or a cure for cancer.

Also you refer to sheathing wooden boats but with nothing more than the fanfare at the time of sheathing. You unfortunately have no idea if that was worthwhile and I'd guess that it wasn't since GRP sheathing of wood hulls is fraught with problems and is seldom worthwhile from what I've seen.

 

Mike,

What I was trying to get across is that steel in and of itself has great strength, but high maintenance, Fer-A-Lite in and of itself has some strength but minimum maintenance, when you create a composite of the two you end up with a result that exceeds the sum of the two products properties. In other words great strength and toughness with minimal maintenance needs.

You are not raining on any parade, as I stated numerous times, we are not aware of any hulls that have the issues that you stated, not saying they may not be out there, but we are not aware of them. If they are out there, we want the facts, not off the cuff comments, but facts.

If there is an inherent issue with the material we will either determine if it is a correctable issue, or if not, as a manufacturer we would stop the production.

I have followed up on over 30 boats that we had contact information on and to date have not run across a single unhappy owner. We are aware of a couple of boats that were lost due to human error, but to date none that were lost due to a fault with the material or build process.

Approximately 100 hulls were started since the material came into production.

What I am hearing is that around 1% or 3% worst case scenario based on the 30 known vessels I am aware of may have had a problem, which may or may not be associated with the material, or in the execution of the build by someone who may have decided to not follow Platt's advice to start with.

How many vessels have been built out of wood, fiberglass, steel, aluminum or whatever, that had problems, once again more than likely a result of not building properly.

Off the top of my head I can come up with a couple of dozen poor /challenged examples of boats built with the above various listed materials, so do we say, that those materials are faulty?

The very fact that you state that this mystery boat was seen for sale a year ago may in fact mean that the issues you are jumping on may or may not be "a real issue", it may in fact be insufficient understanding of the material on your part.

If you read the information you will see that we very clearly state that the outside of the hull needs to be skinned with either fiberglass cloth, brown craft paper or as some have done, the cartoon section out of the Sunday paper. This skin is an integral part of the build process, clearly stated.

Watch the video on the www.fer-a-lite.com site and you will see the skin being softened up before we start pulverizing the fer-a-lite material.

Fer-A-Lite does have a modulus of elasticity, it does not mean it is an elastic medium.

Steel, alumuminum, fiberglass, wood and yes even concrete has a modulus of elasticity, but they are certainly not elastic mediums.

Fer-A-Lite, per published tests has a modulus of elasticity matching aluminum, so then would you say that aluminum is an elastic medium?

You may have some very limited experience as a third party surveying someone else's build, but I do not think you have sufficient experience with the material to pass judgement on it as you have.

As for the sheathing, I will be happy to PM you with the contact information of the gentleman that sheathed the Jubilee, lived and sailed on it for many years without any issues.

I will say this again, if you want to punch holes in the material and or process, you should try it and test it yourself, then your comments would carry more weight. I made an offer to send one free bag (except for shipping) to anyone interested. You were not one of those that took advantage of the offer.

I have over 6 years of hands on experience with Fer-A-Lite in many uses including, repairing of damage, building a couple of small hulls and oh yes, manufacturing and distribution of the material to more than a couple of dozen clients who are using it to either repair a ferro-cement boat, sheathing older wooden boats, and finishing the build of a Fer-A-Lite hull started over 20 years ago in AU. We have also seen it used to repair damaged ribs in wooden boats in lieu of sistering, repaired damaged centerboards, rebuild transoms etc...

To date we are not aware of any usage that the material has been used for that it failed to perform as stated.

Find me someone who owns or owned a Fer-A-Lite hull that has something negative to say about the material. If you can. That's all I am asking.

There was also a comment about hull wracking, once again makes me think the boat was not built according to Platt's recommendations.

Shortly after buying our first Fer-A-Lite hull we had a strong front move thru the area, the boat was in Bahia Beach boatyard in Ruskin, when I got there that morning, there were several boats that had been blown off the stands as a result of the heavy rain and winds. Our hull was leaning somewhere between 20 to 30 degrees and was resting on 1 single boat stand.

After replacing the other 2 stands on the port side of hull, but not tightening them up or standing the boat back upright, I climbed aboard.

16.5 tons supported on the keel and on the port side by one boat stand, every door opened, every drawer slid smoothly, all the sliding hatches slid smoothly, in other words there was no distortion to the hull, specificly no distortion around the point of support of the one boat jack.

So if a Fer-A-Lite hull is guilty of having a wracking issue, it was not built correctly to start with. Once again, speak to any current or previous owner of a Fer-A-Lite hull, if they complain about hull wracking, I would like to know about it.

 

Richard- you seem not to either since you accuse me of not knowing anything but dont offer all of us here the reasons why i dont know anything...ok why not??.be specific for once! if you accuse me --back it up with some facts...otjherwise ill take it as an insult and nothing more...which means your motives for beiong here are very simple: you want to make others feel bad..you offer nothing more than discouragement to others...and you make yourself look stupid...

in fact many many times you have said "this wont work" or that its idiotic or whatever--ok great! explain why in detail!

but you always fail to respond as to why it wont work..you give distinct opinions--(not facts) and yet you dont back them up.
you never offer the reasons, or what specifically will happen..you just make vague statements about your opinion on it but dont have any proof or any knowledge as to what is going to happen or why a product/design/idea is going to fail...

i suspect you can't tell me -you dont know- or you know im going to refute it....so how can you say you know better than i do about other materials???
i have yet to see on any post you have added ANYWHERE that had specific reasons why things wont work..not one...tell us all here--enlighten us--whats going to happen if someone uses fer-a-lite?-- but be SPECIFIC- give details and facts not vague statements about people "falling on thier faces"(that was your quote btw- for what would happen if used the material for my boat but you didnt input a reason why)..thats like a doctor saying- you'll never walk again after an accident but then he doesnt tell you why you cant...

 

Mike whats your source that tells you racking is a problem? what proof do you have that racking or bucking is a problem? once again- no proof..no reasons as to why--it appears to me you have stated everything on pure speculation and it seems all people who are against this stuff have is opinions and nothing concrete--no pun intended...

 

Darr,

Read the whole thread, it would be good to see you build a boat of about 30' or more yourself since this is unfamiliar to most and the FC types have left bad taste in many mouths. Give boat names and location along with current owners to verify stated claims.

If possible when your boat is completeed, it would be good to see head to head boat smashing contest with Brent Swain.

 

I don't understand, what is racking?? I just don't remember this term. If you mean flexing, in my experience all boats flex somewhat. Again my opinion, the boats built of fiberglass (all vary to some degree on the layup process, the amount of material, etc.) flex the most, I have been on some yachts where I was thrown out of a forward bunk due to the hull flexing in heavy seas. The yacht was a 52' Production model, very popular in the late 70's and early 80's. I saw first hand the building of several large production yachts, mainly here in FL. I'm not going to mention which companies were cutting corners, but some later suffered law suits that eventully ran them out of business. What I'm getting at, is the hull thickness and construction method is key to the yachts ability to perform. Sailors that enjoy racing, usually want yachts that are constructed of light weight material, and there a many different methods and materials that will be acceptable. On the other hand, yachts of heavier materials, steel, cement,and wood create stronger and heavier yachts, not for racing, but for crusing. My experience is that Fer-A-Lite can be used in either catagory, YES, it can. I 'm not going to go through all the different possible methods and materials. My boat at launching weight was 39,000 lbs. It compared to a wood yacht of the same spec's. I tested parts of the hull during the building process, cut-outs of the portlights, plugs for the thru-hulls. I even shot several with different size amo. Once I used a 12 gauge shotgun, it did not penetrate. A 22 cal.long rifle penetrated about halfway. A 30/30 fired from a distance of 40 feet, did not penetrate, but fractured the piece enough that you could push out the pieces and expose it to light. Of all test I believe the 30/30 would do the most damage. Again I have old photos taken in NY. One important factor in building is cost. I was very lucky, a good friend was in the business of building fiberglass truck caps. His factory was on a rail head and could easily order the resins I needed. He had a complete library of resin documents, spec's and manuals. He made sure I was using the proper resin, material etc. During those years resin by the barrel sold for $130 Low to a $250 Hi, I used a total of 22 barrels. The amount of resin used is key for good results. Most High quality maufactures produce a resin rich product. The ones that don't will have a powder like material(when cutting for thru-hulls). The evidence is out there. So many factors, that is difficult to explain without knowing all facts and conditions. But good luck to those that give it a try.

 

I have already listed a number of vessels and their locations. I have permission from some owners to send seriously interested inquiries their way, but once again, all are helping as a favor and I certainly do not want to intrude in their privacy.

I am also very selective and go through a bit of a culling process before I decide to have one of the owners initiate contact with someone.

There are a lot of close minded and rabid mouthed individuals on this thread who seem bent on killing the product, all of which I might add have zero real experience with the product.

As to building one, I don't really need to as there are a large number of excellent examples afloat.

I am looking for a set of plans in the 14 to 20 foot range as we want to build a small demonstrater that we can tow to the various boat shows and events.

 

Yes, absolutely as Platt would say it must be the consistency of peanut butter, not porridge.

I do know of one boat that is just bordering on being resin poor on the mix.

She is still out there 30+ years later, still sound, but the hull does not have the familiar high pitched ring it should have.

 

I still did not get an answer as to what is racking?? Anybody?

 

SD
A lack of torsional rigidity within the hull girder.

 

DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT PROFESS TO REMEMBER THE EXACT DEF.

its not exact but i think this is correct:

wracking or racking- is the torsional forces applied to a vessel athwartships. or something to that effect...

for example if the vessel is in a seaway, and you are moving to windward you have force vectors from waves-wind, force at the bow, the prop torque etc.

and the torque generated from these forces are trying to twist the hull out of fair. there are many such forces--i.e hogging-sagging, twisting, wracking etc... with wracking the hull wants to twist upwards and sideways or off the centerline from various forces...

hope it helped...

 

I cannot say Mike if it was an Adams 50, sorry mate, but I can state for sure that it was between 1985 and 1989, cos that was when I was running the show there.

The boat was about that size yes. I had never seen one before and another surveyor was called and was doing the survey, I think for a prospective purchaser.