Fastest Sailboat on the Planet!

not really
Hydropter is already up and running, all they are doing now is tuning it for various conditions and using it as a test bed for things to come. Like the kiters Hydropter runs faster and faster with every outing.

there is no marine equivalent "bionic" suet available to transmit loads greater than what the human physic is capable of available to the kiters, unless that is they are willing to start spending an equivalent amount of cash on one from the military which may eventually be a possibility, who knows.

IE
Hydropter has not even remotely reached its mechanical limitation as to the amount of energy it might eventually transmit from horizontal to forward motion. However I'm sure those kiters are working there asses off in order to achieve that same speed. In the end Hydropter will win if for no other reason than this.

 

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I agree, Boston. Hydroptere is now concentrating on offshore projects and probably won't go for the 500m record again while she still hold the world record for the fastest nautical mile. But can you imagine a boat like Hydroptere with a solid wing?! There is lots of room left for a boat like this...

 

You're sure of this, are you? I had no idea that you were an aero-hydrodynamicist, B. You know all about the theoretical limits of the surface piercing foil, as used by L'Hydroptere? You know all about the limits of the soft sails used, the drag signature of such a large vessel, etc? I'm suggesting that you do not know any of these things and that you are simply winging it and poorly winging it at that.

And how is the, as you call it, "petty bickering", any different from your position, which is to flat-out guess and then pontificate as if you know of what you speak? Seems like the pot calling out the kettle.

Lots more assumptions in that paragraph and they are very much like those preceeding. Get some hard data as to drag of the existing outfit as worn by the kiters and the differences that are attainable should they start to wear an aerodynamic outfit to reduce said signature. Yes, there's a fair degree of assumed positive gain in that statement, but it is far from proved without the data.

Once you have said data in hand, apply the same paradigm for analysis to the wildy draggy shapes being presented by L'Hydroptere as it speeds through the air.

As to L'Hydroptere's supposed mechanical advantage... what about L'Hydroptere's mechanical disadvantage? I mentioned the potential limits of the surface piercing foil. That is one mechanical disadvantage. Bring to us the theoretical speed limit of this type of foil and openly discuss the probable speed ceiling. I think that you will quickly debunk your own argument. What about the very draggy mechanical form? What about the fact that the big boat carries a running engine?

Here's one question that none of the L'Hydroptere fans have come close to solving... If the boat is capable of so much more, then why didn't it show that speed on the WSSRC approved course? Why didn't they peg that record so far out into the future that it would take years for the kiters to get there, if ever? I mean, you had some very smart guys on board that bad boy and yet, they were only satisfied to barely break the existing record and not push the boat... well, assuming it had anything left in the tank. Doug's penchant for the goofiness of a peak speed claim, notwithstanding, I'll bet that the skipper simply spent his wad and that the element of fear reared its head. Perhaps you have a tidy description of what it would be like to be sent hurtling through the shrouds at 50+ knots, should L'Hydroptere crash at top speed?

You see, kiters are much more like the guys who wear the squirrel suits and fly down the faces of massive granite cliffs in Norway, than they are like the mentality that comes out of an Optimist School when young. The kite boys know of the danger and embrace it. They seek it out, in fact. I'm not so sure that a speed sailing guy on a 60' yacht has come to grips with that reality and there's a very big difference in the two.

Just like the kiters can reach higher speeds, I do not doubt that L'Hydroptere may have a few more knots in her. Trouble is, the relative costs to push that boundary for each style of speed burner are so much less expensive for the kite clan than it is for the big French foiler. We're talking many millions of Euros for the L'Hydroptere effort and in the tens of thousands of Euros for the kiting efforts.

Just on a pragmatic scale, which entity makes the most sense and how likely is it to return a payback should the relative cash amounts be spent? How much money do you think the sponsors for L'Hydroptere will lay out, knowing that a sub $10K rig with a bold rider is going to, once again, blow past that mark, making the foiler terminally obsolete? Remember, the big boat only barely squeaked past the kite record and when the kiters returned, they absolutely obliterated the L'Hydroptere mark.

I think that L'Hydroptere is done. I do think that faster speeds are attainable, but it is going to be done by another class of vessel. Something more like Macquarie Innovations, or another design of that type using a hard surface wing.

 

sorry but your assesment is based purely on your bias and not on any valid scientific data as you suggest is lacking in my last

best of luck to all
B

PS
anyone else would have taken your last 2 points but I've got a pretty good sense of humor and frankly got a good laugh out of your latest

cheers and try and have fun with it
B

 

Amazing to see a bunch of American's cheering for the French boat and not for the American boat!!!!

 

Whoops, B has lost control of himself and its clear for all to see in his use of language.

Sorry to see his run end in that fashion, but what the heck. B just has to come to the conclusion that he has a much lower mental threshold for competitive interplay than most of the guys on this forum.

Better luck next time.

 

Just what organization is sanctioning a 550m record? Is it detail stuff like this that continues to creep into your design calculations, forcing you to install an ama with two times the planing surface once thought perfect?

Those danged details. Yes, I suspect that both you and B belong together, Doug. Neither of you seem to understand that the details matter.

 

Blue, some people will shift allegiance at the drop of a hat. I invite you to watch this forum over the coming months and take note whenever the players you see on this thread hop all around in search of thrill rides they can't get in their everyday lives. Allegiance means nothing to this sort, they only want to be associated with winners, as they see them.

These are the same folks who leave the basketball arena at the start of the fourth quarter when its clear that their team is not going to win. It's not about the love of the game, it's about the patronizing of their sense of self.

You'll see.

 

actually all you need do is read back through and you will see the consistency of the posts in question

Cards clearly has some agenda and is obviously biased in his responses given that all I really pointed out was the physical limitation of the kiters and the mechanical advantage Hydropter has on its side.

cheers
B

PS
Cards you really should lay off the alcohol cause your ranting at this point

I also noticed you failed to explain why you think Hydropter has reached its mechanical limit, or how you think the kiters can transfer more energy than what the human body has historically ever been able to in the past. Nor did I miss that you failed to acknowledge hydropters wreck and subsequent rebuilding thus negating much of your previous argument. The simple fact that this boat has made consistent advancements in the vessel speed to wind speed category far beyond what the kiters have speaks volumes to the technological advancement.

Oh and I might also ask why you failed to address my mention of Hydropters use of ground effects
or do you need a few days to go gain a better understanding of what Hydropter is all about

something tells me your bias is blinding your education

love
B

 

First sailboat to 40kts = windsurfer
First sailboat to 45kts= windsurfer
First sailboat to 50kts = kitesailor
First sailboat to 55kts = kitesailor
First sailboat to 60kts = ?????????

Place your bets???

Where the hell are the old foils, trimarans and cats in recent speedsailing history????

Embrace the achievements, simplicity and economics of the 10 year old kitesurfer!!!!!

Peace out dudes

 

B,

It appears that you are still in that post haze of defeat. That limbo land where all one can do is rant at the clouds.

Take some time off, get a grip and then come back when the jitters leave your fingers.

We'll wait.

 

The original Hydroptere was outfitted for 500 m / 1 nm and after lots of effort and quite a bit of tweaking, they got what the went after. Later they said they would outfit it for open water distance attempts. But around the same time they indicated that there team would start working on an even bigger boat for the long distance stuff and a new smaller boat (Hydroptere.ch) would be used as a development test bed. I am not real sure if they plan to use the original Hydroptere for any more record challenges or not.

Hydroptere is still the worlds fastest boat and the world record holder for the nautical mile. Although the large size, high tech soft rig and advanced foils allowed it to nudge up the record, I suspect that they would have to spend a lot of resources chasing the perfect conditions needed to take back the record. Remember that any attempt has to follow a bunch of WSSRC rules. Between the rules & the salaries of the crew, this has to burn lots of cash.

The Kiters have found a combination of good physics (natural balance of the primary forces) a great location and an annual event that meets WSSRC rules. The location provides great wind and the locals have allowed them to dig their speed channel. The annual event takes rule compliance burden off of the individual competitor and it has allowed for a lot of synergy with multiple challengers all working out the hard spots on pushing the limits.

Regardless of my personal opinions (Go Sailrocket Mk II and come on Longshot get back in the game), the steady improvement of the kiters over the past few years and the obvious areas for more improvements (overall air drag reduction, rig efficiency improvements, channel improvements, etc.) would say that we can only expect significant improvements from them in coming years.

If the French want to, they could probably work on some tweaks and get Hydroptere back in the game. If they wanted to trade in their soft rig for a wing, that would probably do the trick. This would be a big bucks effort and it does not seem that they have much interest in that option. If the stick to only minor adjustments, they could chase the "perfect wind". This is costly, frustrating and even risky (they crashed when they went out in strong/gusty conditions).

 

a defeat requires that there be a competition
there wasn't one

the "boat" sailed on open water
the kite sailed in a ditch
you figure it out

while your ignoring so many other questions about your misstatements I'm going to guess you ignore this one as well

both myself and the Hydropter teem congratulated the efforts of the kiters
the only animosity seems to exist in those few petty minds who are unable to consider the limitations of the human physique as apposed to the mechanical. You only embarrass yourself with this failure and by continuing to inject animosity where none exists. OK other than your own maybe.

the childish nature of your posts (gloating over temporary accomplishments) are indicative of issues and problems that you are not likely to resolve without first realizing that you have a problem. You might take a minute and ask why you are failing to comprehend the nature of my initial statement rather than create something out of nothing

the simple fact of the point being made is evident over and over again throughout history. With the invention of the wheel a cart could carry more than a man and with the invention of the engine a car could go faster than a horse. with the invention of Hydroper a sail boat must again eventually exceed the ability of the human. It is inevitable, at least to those who understand the progression of things and are willing to acknowledge history as the ultimate example of the future. Or is that asking a bit much.

best of luck
your going to need it
B

ps
you might gain a bit of understanding upon reading Flados latest
that and given the nature of your last few I think I will have to make a slight deduction from your reputation given that this is exactly what the system is here for. A reminder to the childish and ill behaved.

on the other hand offering Flados a few reputation points for trying to point out the obvious, even in the environment of animosity you seem so bent on creating is certainly worthy of some appreciation as he is taking an excellent angle on the point I am trying to make

the two are not even remotely equal contenders

 

Boston-

The current foils on Hydroptere cannot go after the 55 knot record......more budget is required for new foils. Kiters do not need to tranfer more energy and they dont need more budget......they only need a course with a better run up that will allow them to cross the starting line above 55 kts (currently in Luderitz the starts are 50kts or below because the 2nd lagoon is too small where the course is located) Kites are doing 50kts in less than 35kts of wind..........very similar to Hydroptere. what is this vessel speed to wind speed argument anyway?????......the technological development argument favors the kites as they are the youngest class of sailboat fighting for the outright record and therefore they are in the earliest stages of development......just wait till a kiter gets a hold of a big corporate budget. Will you support the class then after it breaks 60kts first or will you still support the theoretical Hydroptere XVI as it attempts to break 100 kts??

 

Somebody alert the media.....Boston has just unratified the kiters records because they didnt race side by side and someday Hydroptere XVI might set a new outright record. Alert ISAF too, Boston has also ruled that kites are not sailboats. We can all go home now.