Fast Electric Yacht Systems Contact Info

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by cerckert, Dec 5, 2009.

  1. cerckert
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    cerckert New Member

    Hi Guys,

    I never got in touch with the people over at Fast Electric Yacht Systems (old domain feys.com) before they disappeared from the web.

    I was interested in their hybrid system they developed and was hoping to contact them for a new prototype we are building.

    Anyone with contact info would be great.

    Regards,

    Christopher Erckert
     
  2. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Feys guy-his last name is Hall,can't remember if it's Derek,Dave,or Don.

    Looked it up for you,the boat they did was April K,reegistered to Paul R Smith out of St Pete.

    Maybe you'll find him on facebook or something.Maybe he'll know Hall's contact.

    I posted the motors and gens info a bit ago.

    Its an ocean alexendar,mebbe ask on an OA forum if anyone knows him.
     
  3. rover812
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    rover812 New Member

    I know this is an old thread but what happened?
    A couple of years ago I was looking into Hybrid propulsion options for a boat and there were a lot of options. Now I can't find anything. I have a 43 foot Egg Harbor that partially submerged and I figured it's a good candidate for a conversion. Did Big Oil buy them all out? I’m new here so I’ll start digging through old posts.

    Cheers.
     
  4. Redwingster
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    Redwingster New Member

  5. fpjeepy05
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    fpjeepy05 Senior Member

    Hybrid Yachts and Hydrogen Cars... two peas in a pod. :)
     
  6. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "couple of years ago I was looking into Hybrid propulsion options for a boat and there were a lot of options. Now I can't find anything."

    Too many folks went past the HYPE & BS , and found nothing there but a huge pile of expenses , and close to zero practicality.

    Ran out of big buck boobs , so the market collapsed.

    Fear not, the work is continuing , more hype is on the way , for the next wanabee Green braggarts, and the sales folks that entertain them. Mostly Gov subsidized of course.

    FF
     
  7. rover812
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    rover812 New Member

    Thanks for the input good and bad.

    Now they are producing hybrid yauchts in the 60FT+ range that do all that I expect and all new cruise ships are deisel electric hybrids (these guys are in it to make money and reduce expenses). I think anyone that is not pushing foreward is falling behind in a big way except for digital audio (Big mistake selling digitsl hype over poor quality). If you ballance out cost of fuel over the next few years (Don't worry, prices will come down :D) with the increased cost of the intitial install you will find the pay back time is very good. I plan to incorporate this in a cruiser with large nickle iron (something else for you to balk at. Why did Excide by it all up and stop making these great batteries?) battery banks, Solar and Wind generation.
    It's all pretty simple and my scaled down test on my RIB have been working great for three years with less than optimal drives.
    I am an electronics eng. and if you want to call me a dreamer fine, but if wasn't for the dreamers the rest of you would still be eating raw meet. So start banging rocks together to make a fire and don't buy into the corporate bull feather thay are selling you to make their record profits.

    Don't forget, The world! she is a flat.:p
     
  8. fpjeepy05
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    fpjeepy05 Senior Member

    If you're an electrical engineer you know a little about physics. How is a hybrid system more efficient?

    Its not like a car. There is no cruise for say. The motors must operate at full at all times. There are several reasons why hybrid cars work.

    1) Regenerative breaking. Stop and go kills full economy of a regular car, but in a hybrid it charges the batteries to re accelerate. That why a Prius doesn't get much better economy on the highway than some of the VW Tdi's, but it destroys them in the round town MPG.

    2) Engines have an RPM/torque combination that they are most efficient at and by having a motor run only in this condition there is a small gain in efficiency.

    3) Most engine work is needed to accelerate a car, and then once it reaches speed much less energy is need to maintain speed. (All power that needs to be generated is to overcome air resistance.)

    So how does this help a boat? Boats have no brakes. Boats power is used to overcome wave resistance, water friction, and is a constant full time requirement. Also boat are drastically affected by weight which a second motor and more batteries is going to add a lot to. Twice as likely to break down etc.

    The reason it works in cruise ships is because the "house demand" for electricity is a big part of the power generation requirement. Therefore if they have the ability to turn on and off up to 4 or 5 engines to generate how much electricity they need, at any given time they can optimize and have the least number of engines running at all times and save fuel. Different situation than most boats.

    But hey have fun! The public is dumb and if it says "Hybrid" they think it makes them look cool and they'll by it. I wouldn't be surprised if you made some money. I'm all for technology. But find a problem and then solve it using technology. Don't force technology and then come up with problems it solves.
     
  9. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I'm still waiting for first "Keel boat"/Battery synergy.

    I'd like to see a sail boat with enough battery power stowed in the right place that it would be able to E-motor in and out of the marina without coughing up the ICEngine, or just have the E-motor as 'backup' for jibing, etc.
     
  10. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "I expect and all new cruise ships are deisel electric hybrids (these guys are in it to make money and reduce expenses)"

    They are diesel electric but NOT hybrids.

    AS the propulsion loads and house loads vary , they choose to gang 4 to 12 diesel gen sets to provide power. Diesels are most efficient at HARD work , this gives them the ability to adjust the loads.

    When the fuel burn is 20,000 tons , the operators get very smart.

    But recharging a battery is not how they do it.

    "I'd like to see a sail boat with enough battery power stowed in the right place that it would be able to E-motor in and out of the marina without coughing up the ICEngine, or just have the E-motor as 'backup' for jibing, etc."

    Simply get a trolling motor and outboard bracket, and use that for this purpose.

    Many are made with about the power of a 5HP outboard and will serve you as fine dink motors as well .

    Many cruises have been ruined by "trapping" the ladies aboard as they dislike starting a pull start outboard.

    The trolling motor on a displacement dink solves the problem .

    You could get dual use by having it for simple slow boat manuvering.

    FF
     
  11. nimblemotors
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    nimblemotors Senior Member

    When I see a bass fishing boat, it has THREE outboard motors on it,
    the big one to get somewhere fast, the little one to move around,
    and the trolling motor. This is efficient right?
    If they had an electric outboard, they would need just one motor as they are efficient as any speed, and use a diesel generator.

    Trains use serial hybrids and large ships do also. Propeller spins via electric motors, which are about the most reliable device for rotating a propeller made by man, and then generate the electricity by diesel generator.
    You can locate the gen anywhere convenient, for weight or service.

    I'm looking into building a hybrid boat, it will have electric driven props,
    and diesel generator along with solar and wind. it IS more expensive initially that is for sure.

     
  12. Jeremy Harris
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Jeremy Harris Senior Member

    The bottom line with any hybrid system, be it series or parallel, is that the vessel or vehicle it's powering HAS to have a high peak to mean power ratio for it to be viable from an efficiency perspective.

    Cars and motorcycles are pretty good candidates, because they have a peak to mean power ratio of around 8 to 12 to 1, or even more. A typical saloon car might have a mean power of around 12 to 20hp and a peak power of maybe 100 to 200hp. This means that, at least in theory, a small internal combustion engine can keep a battery bank topped up enough to allow a big electric motor to meet the peak power demand whilst still meeting the continuous mean power demand.

    Boats and aeroplanes are rather different, as a rule, as they have a much, much lower peak to mean power ratio. It's not at all uncommon for a power boat to run at 60 to 70% of its maximum power when cruising. This makes a hybrid system pretty pointless.

    There are exceptions that make a a hybrid system economically viable for a very small number of boats. Boats that require a high burst speed for very short periods, with long periods of running at much lower speeds might benefit from a hybrid system, but unless the high speed running time is extremely short the weight and cost of the batteries needed will probably make such a system of doubtful value.

    The science is relatively simple, but as has already been mentioned, there is a great deal of BS being spread about hybrid systems, by people more motivated by making a buck than being truthful about any possible benefits.

    Jeremy
     
  13. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Sure is a tired argument with reality, isn't it?

    The reasons it doesn't work like a car or motorcycle dead simple (and has been posted in this thread and many others).

    My feeling is that it's people who don't spend a lot of time running boats that think you can make passages on hybrids more efficiently than straight engines.

    Sure, it might be nice to charge some batteries up at the dock, go outside the harbor on electric only, sail, then return on electric only, but that's about all you can do with the stuff. In the States, that means changing your main propulsion energy source from diesel or gasoline to energy made mostly from coal. Not very good for the environment.
     
  14. nimblemotors
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    nimblemotors Senior Member

    I've just read through a few hours of past posts, and it has been discussed sufficiently to not warrant further discussion.
    Everyone has different needs and desires and goals and resources.
    Maybe someone doesn't care about stinking fuel and exhaust and noise,
    maybe someone else cares a whole lot about it, and will pay 10x more to avoid it. Why would someone spend 2x on a cat rather than a monohull?
    Are they just stupid and don't understand a monohull "works"? that is a retorical question.

     

  15. Jeremy Harris
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Jeremy Harris Senior Member

    Cynicism is fine, even scepticism can be healthy, but ignoring the laws of physics, specifically the First Law of Thermodynamics, is a sign of a lack of fundamental understanding.

    No one likes burning fossil fuel much, but the bottom line is that it has a high energy per unit mass and so makes it possible for boats and vehicles to travel at high speeds for long periods of time.

    Hybrids don't manufacture "extra" energy, they just allow vehicles that have a high peak to mean power usage ratio to use energy a little bit more efficiently, by allowing a lower powered internal combustion engine to run in a region where its efficiency is higher than average.

    For a boat, aeroplane or other vehicle that has a low peak to mean power usage ratio hybrids are less efficient than conventional drive systems, because of the losses inherent in converting energy from one form to another and then back again.

    If you want freedom from noise and smelly exhaust fumes then pure electric is probably the answer, but until we find ways to both generate electricity cleanly and store it in a compact enough form to be a useful power source we're stuck with what we've got.

    If you want a comparison of energy storage between the very best batteries around and ordinary fuels, then here it is:

    Gasoline holds around 44MJ of energy per kg
    Diesel holds around 45MJ of energy per kg
    Molten salt Zebra batteries hold around 0.324MJ per kg
    Lithium Polymer batteries hold around 0.72MJ per kg
    Lead acid batteries hold around 0.14MJ per kg

    In simpler terms, there is around 60 times more energy in every kg of gasoline or diesel than there is in a kg of the very best batteries currently available. To put it another way, to get the same range with battery power would require around 60 times the weight, but this would then increase the displacement and increase the power requirement for a given speed, so in practice you'd probably need maybe 100 times the weight of fuel in batteries to get the same sort of endurance as liquid fuels give.

    Jeremy
     
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