Epoxy Problems???

Hi Man 5, If you are going to repair stringers covered in disintegrating glass you need to remove all the loose material until you get back to solid substrate. If it is at all wet it needs thorough drying. Repair with new woven glass and epoxy resin as it will be more impervious to water and stronger and longer lasting then polyester. Also it adheres more tenaciously. Dont worry it is not all that toxic in small doses.

 

Thanks for all the replies. The Grady seems to have a p*ss poor layup(on the stringers) and I think they didnt get the air bubbles out (the size of 1/2 dollars and smaller) and some of these are holding water. I never thought I would see a grady built like this.

 

Sometimes when wood is laminated over, heat from the resin curing can expand the air in the wood creating bubbles that were not there when they were done rolling the glass out. This is less likely to happen if the wood is pre-coated with resin before lamination. Or it may have just been a p*ss poor job.

 

They've been around for a long time and have probably changed management a number of times. Sometimes people cut corners to save money and quality lessens but the reputation keeps the product selling until consumers catch on or new management changes course. I watched woodworking machines go from high quality Delta to Delta-Rockwell to Rockwell-Delta to piece of s..t Rockwell. Now it's just Delta and quality is back. Maybe Gradys' are quality boats now, their President seems to think so..
"Grady-White continues to excel by every industry measure and remains a very bright spot in the realm of recreational boating," exclaimed President Kris Carroll. Of course he might be biased. Sam

 

This problem regards only the building process or the epoxy is also an allergical material in a finished boat?

 

Only when building. When the epoxy has dried, it is in essense inert - a sort of "plastics".

 

You would be interested to know that more people are allergic to nuts that to epoxy. Also they do say "overexposed" which I doubt means just getting some on your hands. Also there are lots of other substances that we use / abuse every day that has a more harfull effect on humans i.e. alcohol, tobacco, drugs (illegal or prescription)

 

Anton, yes, in some part they go "overexposed", but not in the second one.

The difference between nuts and eppoxy is that you can easily _not_ be overexposed to nuts, whereas it's easy to become overexposed to epoxy, should you work with it. Nuts are usually a solid, it seldomly get into your lungs, and it is usually ingested through your mouth. Epoxy on the other hand can get in through lungs, eyes, skin and what have we.

The comparison is a bit off, as you're comparing a product that most people protect themselves against, a product that is not ingested, to a food source where noone protects themselves, that is ingested, and that is easily avoided.

They are pushing epoxy products, so when the people that are actually selling the products are saying it is dangerous, take heed, as they will actually loose sales by saying so.

The same could be said for people that get's "painter's brain" - if you used the logic that more people are allergic to nuts, then there would be no need to protect yourself while using acrylic paints, paint thinners and the like. You can't compare like that.

 

That's possibly because more people are exposed to nuts than to epoxy. If 1000 people were 'exposed' to nuts and 1000 other people were 'exposed' to epoxy, then you could compare the two. My point is, none of the stuff should be taken lightly and somebody who is selling you the stuff or making you use the stuff is not the best person to be asking about harmfull effects. Agent Orange comes to mind. Here is one of several sites under 'epoxy toxicity', there are even worse ones under 'polyester resin toxicity'. Apparently there is even danger from the dust of cured laminates of both resins.
http://www.fram.nl/workshop/controlled_vacuum_infusion/allergy.htm
As far as other substances, 'active' ingredients in a product are required to be tested for their environmental and health effects. 'Inactive' ingredients are not, and sometimes they are much more harmful. The combination of 'active' and 'inactive' ingredients are also not required to be tested and they can be worse than either of the others on their own.
I saw something last night on the tube about leopard frogs ( the kind you disected in school). They are disappearing and/or becoming deformed worldwide for various reasons, depleted ozone causing excessive UV, herbicides, pesticides etc. A laboratory study was done using the pesticide atrazine. The results were unusual in that there were three levels of effect. Micro levels of as little as 1 part per billion caused a change of testosterone to estrogen, which caused a high level of hermaphrodites which were sterile and deformed. Of course macro levels caused mayhem, but the level just above micro was the least harmful. They figured that at micro levels, there was not enough exposure to awake the frogs defenses but there was enough 'substance' to invade and alter genes. Epoxy is not atrazine, but they are both toxic chemicals. Everyboby knows too much epoxy can be bad for you, maybe a tiny bit has its effects also. I guess we could ask the Gougeon Brothers. Sam

 

Certainly it's not the best place to get information about the toxicity about the products - simply because there of course will be a tendency to downplay it. But wshen the manufacturers themselves goes to warn sternly, one shouldn't go thinking "Nah, it's propably not dangerous".

I don't think we disagree, though?

 

amines are what cause many if the issues with skin/health reactions. They make epoxies now with little to no amines.

Epoxies with the 3:1 or 4:1 ratios are what I find the smelliest. I can't say for sure, but I think the stronger smell goes along with more chance of bad reaction to it.

 

dont they need the amines to cure?

 

"No amines" is mis-speaking. I shouldn't have said that. I've read that it has to do with the shape of the amine used or something like that. 'cyclic amines' are supposedly better.

I'm no chemist and can only speak from my own experience which has been 2:1 mixtures have been the least offensive I've tried so far.

 

Thanks for all the replies. JEM did you like the 2:1 better than the 1:1?

 

I never tried 1:1 but I do need to re-supply my epoxy inventory for a new canoe I'm building. I might try some out. Stuff from Clarkcraft looks interesting. I don't know of another source of 1:1 epoxy for laminating/general purpose building. Anyone else know of a place to purchase?