environmental concerns using boat yard paints and other chemicals

um.....there is no farming of any siaze in the northeast,,im not attacking you a bit,jimbo,why do you seem to want to make into attacking you,,,is it because everything you have to say has NO backing,, no data,,and no numbers to back up what your saying?,,i havent once "attacked" you,,and yet when you sit there and type things you have NO proof of , and i remark on it,,im attacking,,,,,,seems like that EXCUSE is wearing itself out,,if i was "attacking" you,,,you WOULD know it,ya know, it seems to me that when someone isdumping sludge in the middle of the night,,and them tree huggers are screaming about it,,,that big company usually starts out saying,,,what is it,,,ooo,," their attacking us for no reason",,,,,sound familiar? ,and i would make it VERY clear that i was attacking you
show me 1 picture of farm land turned back to a forest??????
and do you know why we farm more product from 1 acre of land now??its because most farming in the usa is corn and wheat,,which has been genetically altered to produce more ( worse quality) corn ,,and now that 1000 acre farm is STILL 1000 acres of farm land,,but now they get twice the corn syrup out of it,,,,o,,,thats right,,what does most of that "farm land" produce,,,,corn syrup,,for our "sweet" tooth,,,85% of ALL corn grown is for sweetner,,,,not for our food consumtion,,,just to make our food sweeter.
and NO jimbo,, green wackos aint against progress or big businesses,,there against killing ourselves to get it. now tell me how ive "attacked" you,,,then show us where you get your info,,,as ive stated before,,i can give ya first hand experience, from being in the fishing and logging industry,, then i can give ya pics,,and i can give ya the #'s on all that straight from our loving government
and im waiting for that "proof" that an over populated place like Florida, has NO air pollution.

 

and P.S.
i aint a green wacko,tree hugger,,,,,,yes im a hippie but i blame that on the "fumes" i'm only stating things i've seen first hand,,an observation,,,and its VERY hard to tell me the i cant see something thats standing right in front of me.,,i'm confused on how you can read what i've said,,things i've spent my life doing for over 30 years,, things i've seen EVERY day,, things i've done, and tell me the exact opposite is the truth. i dont say i KNOW things, unless i KNOW.it doesnt mean i dont like you, it doesnt mean i do,the only thing it means is we disagree on a subject. maybe its time for more math,,,with my shoes off and using my daughters fingers, i've seen that we agree on most things,,,so dont take me so "personal",,its politics,,,and i dont even vote,,so i dont waste my time trying to "change" anyones mind or choice,,i really dont care what your "politics" are,,,,but im also not going to sit there and say nothing when YOU attack people that "care" for you,me,my children,and all the rest of "us" and them people are doing "their" bit and things they "believe" in.
i'm real sorry you take "it" so personal,,,but on the other hand,, i really dont care what ya think,,but people that "care" for my children, are considered my "family" and well,, im a yankee hippie, that really dont care what people think bout me,,but there will be NO attacking MY family without getting some "mouth" from me.,,,so from now on,,tell me what you "know" not here say,derilic propaganda,give me FACTS,,
Thank-You
Your "happy hippie" Jim

 

The clean air act as amended is probably the crowning jewel of the environmental movement. I have so stated in another thread some months ago. That act addressed a specific group of problems concerning air quality and has mostly achieved its objectives; our air quality has, for the most part returned to levels not seen in at least 100 years. In the UK (different country, different legislation, I know), the return has been to air quality not seen in some 500 years. Not that our air was dirtier then theirs recently, but that theirs has been badly polluted for centuries, long before the industrial age.

Nor is this thread about attacking the ideas behind the environmental movement, at least not the ideas that spawned that movement and made it appeal to the mainstream, nor to attack its successes.

Indeed, the problems with the most recent permutation of that movement stem from the fact that it has largely been successful in reaching most of the goals that were set, and has since suffered a certain 'lack of cause', so to speak. The cleaner and more sustainable our existence becomes, the more we hear that we are in a 'crisis', which when viewed from a purely technical perspective, is puzzling. But this sort of unreasonable shrillness is the stock and trade of the environmental extremists that have hijacked that movement.

Simultaneously, the taste of the powers gained early on is addictive, and the leadership in the movement has regrettably fallen into a lust for power, wherein junk science scaremongering (Menken's hobgoblins) is the standard motivational tool plied upon the populations of the democratic countries in which environmental advocacy groups operate.

The bottom line to all of this is that since the environmental advocacy groups have unquestionably thrown their hats into the ring political, it is incumbent upon us to treat them accordingly, as the politicians they have morphed into, and to demand no less honesty from them than we do from politicians of other stripes. This is the one and only way that they can remain useful to us. This honesty must apply no less to technical matters than any other, especially as the leaders of the movement so often present the appearance of resting their positions upon scientific data.


"The environmental movement really, it is a political activist movement, and they have become hugely influential at a global level and every politician is aware of that today....

I think one of the most pernicious aspects of the environmental movement is this romanticism of peasant life, and the idea that industrial societies are the destroyers of the world...

The environmental movement has evolved into the strongest force there is for preventing development in the developing countries, I think it is legitimate for me to call them anti-human.

The shift to climate being a major focal point came about for two very distinct reasons: the first reason was because by the mid 80's the majority of people now agreed with all of the reasonable things we in the environmental movement were saying they should do. Now when a majority of people agree with you it's pretty hard to remain confrontational with them, and so the only way to remain anti-establishment was to adopt ever more extreme positions...

The other reason that environmental extremism emerged was because world communism failed, the [Berlin] wall came down, and a lot of 'peacenicks' and political activists moved into the environmental movement bringing their 'neo-marxism' with them, and learned to use green language in a clever way to cloak agendas that actually have more to do with ant-capitalism and anti-globalization than they do anything with ecology and science."

Patrick Moore
Environmental activist, co founder of "Greenpeace"

The leaders of any political movement are still human, with all of the foibles of humans. Politicians of one denomination are NOT inherently more honest than those of any other, or for that matter than a high government official or the leadership of a large corporation. They will use deception to achieve their goals if they believe they can get away with it. This fact is especially disturbing when the acquisition of power becomes the main goal as it always is in politics. It's up to us to prevent them getting away with it!

 

sounds like a guy who got kicked out heh
In his OWN words
Jim Robinson
Father,friend

 

Much,

There is so much data everywhere on this subject of reforestation and high-yield farming. If you have seen my posts on the global warming thread you would know that I am capable of backing up eveything that I have posted. But this one is so well understood and documented it's just too easy. Do a little research yourself.

Here, I'll help you get started:

http://www.highyieldconservation.org/
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=21821
http://www.cgfi.org/2007/05/31/world-wide-forests-expanding-aided-by-high-yield-farming/


Much, the following is an example of a personal attack by you:

"so as you BRAG ( about something you have NO idea about, unless of course you have the instruments and the knowledge to use em ) about florida has NO air pollution,,i want ta shoot the people that are KILLING my kids and bragging bout it. but then i have to say,,well,it takes all kinds "

I have a thick enough skin, don't worry about my feelings But the thread is not served by these attacks. Try to just stick with the facts. I never made any brag about FL's air pollution, juat a statement of fact. You are once again reading something into the post that IS JUST NOT THERE! OF COURSE wind currents play a key role in air pollution. That's why the valleys of CA stay so polluted. And that's also why it MAKES NO SENSE to try to apply CA solutions to other areas that do not have a geo-climatic situation like CA's.


I'm extra busy at work this week, so I haven't had the usual amount time to read and post.

 

hehe,,well theres also alot of data backing my comments
and if you took that as a personal attack,,,,then you musta been bragging,,,,you sound like a man scorned,,,,,,didnt get the girls in greenpeace aye??<that is personal
and im alwaYz extra busy,,,but take the time outta my day for comedic relief,,,,Thank-You

 

Jim,

The simplest way I can show you FL has no air pollution is to show you the EPA's list of current and former 'non-attainment zones'.

http://www.epa.gov/oar/oaqps/greenbk/onc.html

If you search the list, you will discover that no FL city or area is listed. I know these gov't websites are not the simplest to navigate in, but if you look around you can see what I've been talking about, though the info comes piecemeal, not as a summary anywhere I can find. The time period covered is 1995-2005.

Now on the FDEP website I found graphs of ozone and particulates that showed that FL's pollution levels have been dropping since 1980 despite prodigious population growth and that FL did indeed just tip into non-attainment (of federal air quality standards) circa 1988-89, the years of the bad wildfires.

 

For everyone's perusal:

"Two years ago in Britain, the Cooperative Wholesale Association, which farms both organically and conventionally, said they get 44% less wheat per acre from their organic fields. If that's the right number, Europe -- to feed itself, not to export, just to feed itself today -- would need additional crop land equal to all of the forest area in Germany, France, Denmark, and the UK," said Dennis Avery, director of the Center for Global Food Issues. Added Dr. Borlaug, "We aren't going to feed 6 billion people with organic fertilizer. If we tried to do it, we would level most of our forest and many of those lands would be productive only for a short period of time."

 

Much,

Here you go again A fellow who is fairly authoratative on the subject, Patrick Moore, makes statements that you apparently don't like. Do you refute the statements? Do you present facts of your own?

No, of course not. You attack him personally: "sounds like a guy who got kicked out heh"

Whenever you are about to hit the 'submit post' button, ask yourself if your post contains any FACTS, and if it is short on facts in a thread that needs facts, refrain from posting for a change

 

you just proved what i said,,,,thank-you
as you see,,,florida DOES have air pollution,,jus cause its dropping,,doesnt mean there ISNT any
again thank -you
and no i dont refuse true statements,,,i dont accept propaganda from a scorned man like patrick,,,,why dont you tell us the story of patrick,,and i didnt "attack" patty,,i made an observation,,it seems to again that if I dont agree ,,you take it as attcking,,,,do ya think the C.I.A is watching us too? aliens taking over the earth maybe?
propaganda has been used in every war,,every agument between the government and "groups" and that propaganda is from BOTH sides.
but as stated above,,thank-you for proving my point
and ALL my posts are full of FACTS,,,the simplest way ta see that is,,,um,,,OPEN ya eyes
and you think some ***** like patrick is an authority?,,jus cause you write something,,join a club,,then get kicked out,,then write something against them, doesnt mean its true. show us the things patrick wrote like before his um,,,departure
as you read all that,,it seems he's saying the exact opposite,,hmm,,,so im pose to take the "word" of a dude that has written and made speech's that are totally the opposite that he now writes...... sounds like a circle jerk to me

 

thats why we trade with other nations,,to get what we cant grow or make,,and to give what we can,,and what is made with most of that wheat??and our nations biggest crop,,millions of acres of un-eatable corn,for what?,,,now take that useless corn and grow something we can EAT,,hmmm,, sound like "common sense"
and what did those people do before they had all that wheat? and if they didnt have wheat they would die? starve?
hehehe use some sense,,most of "our" food ends up in twinkies and third world countries,,,,oo,,,,our nations 3rd crop,,,,,rice,,guess where that goes?
1 more thingy,,,all our exhaust from cars, industrial "chimneys" where does all that go? out into space never to bother us again?or do we believe "just a little aint nothing,, theres so much air that its "watered" down and is no prob.,,,,,,well air comes from what? common we all know,,,,,o ya,,trees,,,,we now have like 5% of the trees we had 1000 years ago,, so that means less air being made,,but industry has become more and BIGGER,, and the chemicles worse,,,,,,,,how many drops of water coloring (poison) in a pool does it take to turn the water a different color,,1 drop,,,nope,,,no change, 2 drops,,nope still no change,,,3?4? nope no change,,,o.k. people,,,we can all put water coloring in,,it doesnt do a thing to the water.,,,,,,what happens after 300 people and 10,000 drops,,,,,hmmmm,,,the water doesnt seem the same color it was originally

 

wells off today to the oilfield,,where they dump oil on the ground ( even tho our government says its illegal and doesnt happen that often) i just love standing next to the "gas" flares splurting out H2S gas,, and we all know how good that is for our air,,,we have to have detectors attached to us "jus in case" the wind blows down instead of away,,cause unlike any harmful to our environment, if ya get 1 breathe of this stuff it kills ya instantly

 

Much,

My exact word were: "Florida has no air pollution problem. Never has, never will." Notice the word "problem" indicating pollution that is above acceptable levels. Florida has no air pollution that is above acceptable levels. That is all that can be said about any place. Note that there is always some pollution, even at the top of a 'pristine' mountain, and small amounts of pollutants have been there for centuries. The natural world makes pollution, too. Pollutants that can sicken and kill, just like anthropogenic pollutants.

 

http://www.scorecard.org/env-releases/hap/state.tcl?fips_state_code=12#maps
http://www.weather.gov/aq/sectors/florida.php
http://www.epa.gov/enviro/
http://www.city-data.com/forum/florida/114737-florida-s-air-pollution.html
now tell me theres no prob,,,,,but keep ya eyes closed
and P.S. we had a oil waste facility break down and have an oil spill of a few 10,000 barrels or so,,,,im scheduled to go help tonight and only home a few hours to get some rest,,and we know this wont harm nothing