electric boat calculation

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by gp333, May 23, 2010.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Zero...........


    Get It Goran,

    there is NO electric propulsion on the market for a vessel that size!

    IT DOES NOT EXIST !

    was that clear enough?

    And to qoute parts of your mail:

    and:

    6-8 props are really crazy (as the entire plan) and..
    ..... there are much larger el. motors on the market than you ask for. But it is not true that a 480hp el. motor can substitute a 750hp Diesel, as you stated. When 750hp are required you have to install 750hp! The higher torque of the el. motor is no substitution for the lower power.

    But then:

    ......the bubble bursts, that is not possible.

    And when we look at the boat of your dreams*** a displacement of 55 tonnes is not real. It is more likely 120 tonnes. And it does not carry the batteries one would need (who would buy them btw. when you are on a tight budget?)
    ***see attachment

    The QM2 you mentioned is Diesel Electric of course. But Cruiseships have a Hotel load which is almost as high as the propulsion power. In a yacht that has no sense.
    And again it does not correspond whith low budget.

    This post probably enlightens you a bit, as it did enlighten another dreamer.
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/did-dream-got-shattered-32801-6.html#post367820

    Regards
    Richard
     

    Attached Files:

  2. gp333
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 98
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Italy

    gp333 Junior Member

    but you see answers of other people.. and step by step we have good range

    and we say 4 propellers now or transmission 4 to 1

    btw. see real solutions: 1st image is electric/diesel boat with 4 propellers

    and I have other solutions for hull (lighter than one of plans you attach here when i talk with you)

    simple start talk with numbers.. because that i stop by email change your mind.. :) you see that these other persons here talk with some numbers... if you have something say you must talk with some calculations.. other lose my, your energy and time only
     

    Attached Files:

  3. gp333
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 98
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Italy

    gp333 Junior Member

  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    There are no numbers to talk. One cannot provide numbers of non existant rubbish.
     
  5. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 125, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    One cannot provide numbers of non existant rubbish........


    like it or not, this is a true statement......maybe one day we will have some source of electric power that can handle the required high amperage for prolonged periods, currently it simply does not exist, and going on as if it was going to happen next week is absolute rubbish....watch the auto world for the most up to date versions so far....we have a long way to go.
     
  6. gp333
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 98
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Italy

    gp333 Junior Member

    btw. see real solutions: 1st image is electric/diesel boat with 4 propellers

    You did not ask for Diesel Electric! You wanted a fully electric megayacht,
    RE: hm, 80 till 100 feet is not so 'mega yacht at all.. more like middle higher range... and must not go over ocean.. I was say it on start of post here.. for my project must not have 'ocean range'


    that is not available! And the "Boat" shown is a commercial vessel with a Azipod drive, they cost more per piece than a complete Diesel propulsion would.
    RE: yes, but I answer here only this to you: that 4 propellers constructionally exist! You talk that this is not possible to me too.. but is possible... have other examples on web.. pls. change ming here than :) and say: yes, 4 propellers can go.......



    and I have other solutions for hull (lighter than one of plans you attach here when i talk with you)

    You do not have any solutions for hulls which I would´nt have already, thats nonsense.
    RE: you see in 2 my images that 4 propellers can go on these 2 hulls.. and be sure they can go on lot other hulls..
    but I was say it few times. 4 engines can be connected in one propeller too

    than we can stop talk about this and focus on electric problems




    simple start talk with numbers.. because that i stop by email change your mind.. :)

    Oh no guy YOU did not stop anything!!! I cancelled with you, due to the absolutely premature, stubborn and dubious approach.

    I SAID FORGET IT, not you.
    RE: I am not so 'important' and here person with experience.. yes, you say you cant do it... but I am stop talk about that latter with you more... but you here start talk.. you see, these 'small details' change story.. and angle of look very often in life..
    btw. I count you as friend :) because I have potential investor for electric boat project is my own problem.. I talk here about basics... if anyone is more experienced here he can start be part of project. As I was say you this is possible nonprofit project and possible obtain budget to create some real solution. if this be ok, as it is nonprofit be sure I will share some real project calculations with people here in future...
     
  7. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 2,521
    Likes: 47, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 223
    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Landlubber. I am absolute flabbergasted by your reply. Do you know that in your own country a solar ferry (lots of cars) is already sailing for years. I have posted last year pictures on this net. De autoworld is holding progress back due to vast investment they have. But other interested parties will push the automative industry aside with lobbying the governements and you will see some progress in the years to come.
    Bert
     
  8. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    I gave real numbers using lead acid batteries. The most affordable battery out there. For 34 nm of range at a discharge of 50% the batteries would weigh close to 15 tons.

    To cross the ocean would require 750 tons of batteries at current prices of about 2.2 millon dollars worth of batteries. Now the power requirement was for 55 tons. 750 tons would require 13 times as many batteries in a never ending spiral. There is no way on this planet that you are crossing an ocean with a 55 ton boat on battery power.

    The biggest dock hookups are 240 by 100 amps. To recharge the batteries at shore would take approximately 770 hours or 32 days with no other power usesage on board.

    This does not sound too practical to me. In fact it sounds totally impossible. Only our current crop of politicians would try anything like this.
     
  9. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Never I said there are no vessels with 4 props. You asked for 6 to 8 props, and that is nonsense period.

    I did inform you that I am not interested in building a motorboat for you. I said: forget it.
    In a second mail on your other (as dubious) enquiry for the sailing boat I just informed you that I do´nt make sailing boats.

    Your plan is surreal to a unbelievable extend and your enquiries dubious, amateurish and doubtful.

    No reason to comment any further.
     
  10. gp333
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 98
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Italy

    gp333 Junior Member

    I gave real numbers using lead acid batteries.
    RE: yes, you Pierre R help me imagine generally how this calculation go.. sure original plan must be adjusted on few elements, but all is still "open" here and I can change my plan based on real numbers...

    The most affordable battery out there. For 34 nm of range at a discharge of 50% the batteries would weigh close to 15 tons.
    RE: yes, I see... this is not so problem... count that usually you have similar diesel tanks loaded. This is 5 tons more than I plan, but is not so higher!


    To cross the ocean would require 750 tons of batteries at current prices of about 2.2 millon dollars worth of batteries.
    RE: yeh.. I see... on any way, I was say on start.. 'cross ocean' range must not be here present at all


    Now the power requirement was for 55 tons. 750 tons would require 13 times as many batteries in a never ending spiral. There is no way on this planet that you are crossing an ocean with a 55 ton boat on battery power.
    RE: sure


    The biggest dock hookups are 240 by 100 amps. To recharge the batteries at shore would take approximately 770 hours or 32 days with no other power usesage on board.

    This does not sound too practical to me. In fact it sounds totally impossible. Only our current crop of politicians would try anything like this.
    RE: yeh..and finally: what is possible range if we have 15 tons of batteries, 80-100HP engine and 55tons displacement?
     
  11. gp333
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 98
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Italy

    gp333 Junior Member

    Never I said there are no vessels with 4 props. You asked for 6 to 8 props, and that is nonsense period.

    I did inform you that I am not interested in building a motorboat for you. I said: forget it.
    RE: yes , I agree.. exactly happen like that

    In a second mail on your other (as dubious) enquiry for the sailing boat I just informed you that I do´nt make sailing boats.
    RE: yes, and I have serious request and client there

    Your plan is surreal to a unbelievable extend and your enquiries dubious, amateurish and doubtful.
    RE: why? because I ask about technology that still not fully realized in reality? who are you and what you know about me? you are some "judge of boats II" here :)?

    No reason to comment any further.
    RE: yes, because that I STOP this type of talk by email and you STOP technical hull building part of talk

    we so clear know what we do that it is great :)
     
  12. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    34NM at 50% discharge. My numbers matched yours in my figures.

    What you have to realize is that 15 tons of batteries equals about 17 gallons of diesel. The diesel will weigh 120 lb or 55kg. To generate the electricity to recharge the batteries requires about 75 kg of coal. 75kg of coal produces roughly twice as much greenhouse gas as 17 gallons of diesel.

    You could recharge with say 80 solar panels. That would give you a recharge period of about a week. Then you could go another 34 NM.

    The panels would only cost about $ 35,000 US. Even on your side of the pond the diesel will only cost $125 US. Even at bank deposit interest rates of 2% the $35k will generate about $60 US per month or half the cost of the $17 gallons of diesel.

    At present the cheapest diesel electric setups cost at least twice what a conventional diesel setup would cost and only runs about 90% as efficient most of the time. The main advantage is electric/drive power management of a boat with heavy electrical loads. In that setup the diesel electic can match or best the diesel only drive system.
     
  13. gp333
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 98
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Italy

    gp333 Junior Member

    yeah Pierre R you really answer me great and give 'picture' of all

    we are say all I ask in fact.. but I have curiosity.. by your opinion what is possible range if we have 15 tons of batteries, 80-100HP engine and 55tons displacement?

    100km? 500km? or use miles same (I mean from 100% till 50% batteries level)
    interesting is after all talk see some reasonable real number
     
  14. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    Listen very carefully. The practical limit is 34NM. That is with a boat about 100 feet long (31m) by say 16' beam or (4.9 m), pinched at the stern to give a prismatic coefficient near 0.58.

    Now you could slow it way down from there but in real practice there is somewhat of a diminishing return down low due to wind, waves and current. If you slow the boat down to say 6 knots you might get say 100NM 185KM

    The fact still remains. The 55 tons you have in mind is still way to heavy and comfortable for what you have in mind. You need something more in the range of 20 meters and a weight of 8 tons. You can carry you, a bucket, a toothbush, one change of cloths and a jerry can of water and some Raman noodles after spending north of $500k.
     

  15. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    I personally think there is absolutely nothing reasonable in the numbers I am giving you.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.