Early human marine exploration of North America and their vessels

Nordvincrew, the tower was researched and determined to be built sometime in the 1800's.
The stone with the writings, reserched as a recent hoax as some of the words did not exists in 1000yrs. ago.
I am not familiar with the coins but seems to me I read something that they might have gotten there thru native trade routes.
I agree it is possible they went further south but again it's only speculation and as i prev. said speculation is a double edged sword, it can promote further research or kill further research thru being accepted as fact over time. We must accept speculation for what it should be, not factual history but a prodding tool for research.
In my research they did have another camp further south but the best i can determine is it was further down the west coast of NFLD, possibly Bonne Bay or Bay of Islands. The other factor that bothers me is their awareness of their vunerability to the natives and as such they would have been very cautious of streatching their safety in numbers and food supply by increasing their distances from their main settlements in NFLD and Greenland. They struggled to even maintain the NFLD settlement on a permanent basis which of course it was not. It was settled, temp. abandond and resettled over it's 35 yr. lifespan although it now seems they did make later trips for timber and possible trade but no recorded further settling. With further research who knows what will turn up ---Geo.

 

love his thread

Went back an re-read a lot of this thread. Way too much to digest at one time. It does seem that much "research" is colored by foregone conclusions or political motives. Truth, or reality, is a very elusive objective. I'm no scientist or ever a dedicated researcher. Sorting through all this lets me form opinions about might have happened. Just as the wheel and bow and arrow seem to have had multiple points of origin, so may the settlement of Noth America had several sources. It would be very interesting to be able to work it through and have a more complete knowledge. Back to the Vikings: They were very adept at travel, fighting and colonization all throughout Europe. It does seem strange to me that once they reached the new world that suddenly they would have become less successful and highly timid. I know this is not scientific, but sometimes science needs to be nudged to look at another idea to open up new reasearch areas. The whole idea of a complete character change needs to be looked at. To me, it seems that the natural resources of the new world would have been a prize ripe for the picking in a land remarkably similar to their home land.

 

Nord, These Viking explorers from Greenland were primarly a bunch of outcasts from Iceland and in addition to constantly murdering themselves due to their normal aggressiveness also caused early conflict and death with the local natives in NFLD. They had one big disadvantage being so few in numbers and no long range weapon capability. While the natives were still in the stone age their bows/arrows had a much longer range than the sword. The natives also knew the lay of the land so to say and could have easily wiped out the invaders at any time. Why they didn't is a mistery other than the Beorhuck themselves were a passive people and more scattered in their settlements. This was their lifestyle because they themselves had no enemies to fear and didn't need strength in numbers at any one given location as many of the mainland north american tribes did. With the Viking warlike attitude(conquering) they wouldn't have had litlle to no chance of survival against the mainland native tribes even if they reached those shores another big reason why i don't think there will ever be a mainland north american Viking Settlement found. --Geo.

 

"why i don't think there will ever be a mainland north american Viking Settlement found..."

I found it. It is in Wisconsin and, oddly enough, it is called Stockholm.

 

Hide the wife and daughters until you have sufficient Daneguild.

 

Bring back the old laws. No distinction was made between murder and manslaughter.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_by_combat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmgang

 

So we have the so called official discoverers arriving in 1492 and 1497, Colombus and Cabot. It seems to me i read somewhere they actually knew each other and one of the two had made several trips to Iceland prior to setting out on his voyage of discovery. In many history books they go on about the fables of a big island to the east and so on. IsleBrazil or some such similar name(it's late and i'm too sleepy to look it up) Nothing related to Brazil in South America just some fabled name they stuck on a map. It all seems like some kind of a whitewash to me between Spain and England to divy up the already known new world area, sort of discover it officially and in seperated locations, one north and one south. Why all this, Oh we think there's land out there to the east when they already visited it some 20 odd years previous. It is well documented in the Greenland Viking settlement records that in 1476 a fleet of trading ships out of Bristol sailed on what seems to be a routine trading voyage to the Viking settlements in Greenland. Two of the captains names are actually documented, Pining and Potothorst. In 1492 pope Alexander speaks of the decline of the church and the sorry state of the people at the Greenland settlements. Up to that time the Greenlanders were still making voyages to Labrador and Newfoundland for timber so it wouldn't have been a secret of land further east and south once the English traders arrived and all were drinking and trading. Certainly the Greenlanders who ran fairley regular trading freight ships to Iceland would have informed the mother church of this info. berfore their sailing routes iced up in the oncoming mini ice age. Once the Bristol merchants and the Church had the info i think it was just a race to make it official and Columbus happened to beat Cabot to the punch. Actually again in the far reaches of my memory i seem to recall Cabot was origionally set to leave first but got delayed or that could have been another deal between the inbreeding blue bloods. The final outcome Spain and Portugal got Mexico and south america, England and France north america in the very order they were officially discovered. --Geo.

 

Regarding stone moving:
Thanks for the condescending reply, but your logic in the prev post is still flawed. Just because we don't know moving methods doesn't mean that they couldn't have moved a 1000+ tonne stone. Your notion of people gripping the side of the stone is laughable for stones of this size. I don't know how or if these ancient societies did indeed move gigantic megaliths.

I've seen Wally's vids before, and they're quite cool. One guy raising an 8 ton block. favorite comment: "OMG he's an alien"

Since you asked the question, how do you think they were moved? Or don't you?

 

549, lighten up. No condescension offered. I wrote,

"If, OTOH, anyone knows of a better way, let's see it as I am always open minded."

In other words, I am of the opinion that Wally Wallington's methods would probably work better than a cluster of Roman cranes in lifting these monoliths into position. As for gripping them for a lift up, I was using irony & dry humour to illustrate that for some, the application of logistical thinking is singularly absent.

You wrote "I don't know how or if these ancient societies did indeed move gigantic megaliths." The use of "if" implies you do not accept that these objects were moved & yet manifestly, they were.

http://www.biblemysteries.com/images/baalbek1.jpg

BTW, what is the significance of DXLIX:?:

 

There is evidence the Basques were fishing around Newfoundland prior to to "discovery" by Cabot.......it was all pretty secret commercial, so no official records, perhaps something about "rendering to Ceasar". There is certainly some, not particularly reliable evidence suggesting the Templar fleet may have come over. St Brandon appears to have possible made it.......

 

gilberj,

As were the Portuguese fishing for Bacalao (Cod or stock fish). Here is a short film from 1966, which gives us an inkling of the hardships they endured. They were heroes of a kind. May their sons remember them.

http://www.patricioclan.org/video/v...g-1966-m-smmanuela.flv&autostart=true&fs=true

You mentioned the Templars some of whom did flee to Portugal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Christ_(Portugal)

It is said within Freemasonry that there were also Templars fighting with Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn in 1314 against the English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn

Interesting reading here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact#14_.26_15th_century_Europe

Especially about the Shang dynasty Chinese and the Olmecs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Wrestler_(Olmec)_by_DeLange.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmec

Oh for the ability to travel SAFELY back in time.

 

Early explorers and their boats.

Long lining, did lots a that me boy as a kid with my father,and uncle, baited thousands of those sud line hooks. I addition to cod caught everything from halibut to sharks, never knew what was coming up off the bottom. My Newfoundland ancestors did it from their own schooners for hundreds of years. Posted document is the registration of my great, great grandfathers schooner built 1818.(heel tapper style, incrediable sea boats) These were generally less than 100ft. in length depending on the fishing ground locations. This one would have been built for the local coast and the labrador fishery. His son my great grandfather went on to become a big square rigger captain, sailed all over the world. I have a drawing but have to photocopy and reduce it's size along with a model i am building and will post photos.
The west country Bristol boys were here before Cabot and Columbus also but cod was gold and most were family operations and a well kept secret.Thus no documentation only speculation and unrecorded stories passed down. However in the prev. post i mentioned the English ships out of Bristol on trading missions to Greenland and to me thats proof they were on this side of the pond before Cabot or Columbus.--Geo.

 

Gotcha.
I just don't know the history of the baalbek...but a quick search seemed to suggest 800 or 1000 tons as being around the max movable size -- judging by the pregnant woman and second larger monolith left in the quarry...So moving the (trilithon in the baalbek, right?) was quite a feat...I'd only suggest that if it was done then ipso facto it was possible using the technology and engineering of that time, which we may or may not discover through experimentation and study.

I'm curious if your questions regarding the baalbek already had a different answer which you were trying to point towards.

Sorry username is not very epic...I came up with it as a kid for the computer game called Escape Velocity. There's a band called BR549 that's much more worthwhile however.

 

Dexlicks?

DXLIX is 549 in Roman numerals. D means 500, XL means 10 from 50 i.e. 40 & IX means 1 from 10, thus 9. Asking questions is important. We should question what we think we know, as well as that which we do not know. Many times, small changes can have profound effects and success or failure are not destinations, they are the journey.

So yes, I did hope somebody would come up with an even better explanation than Wally's, as to how monoliths might be moved. So far, his idea of seesaw (tetter totter) jacking using rolling weights is the best I have seen. Far better than trying to jack up each end of a monolith in turn with a lever.

And now, back to constructing the latest revelation in boat building techniques, that will shock & awe the known world and earn millions of spondulicks for me. Where's that bleedin' pencil?

P

 

speaking of talking past one another and asking questions....let me get this straight then, you were asking about the number but not my user name "the549" (about which I replied)?

then the answer is "i have no clue!" ...except for DXLIX probably being an acceptable name for a rap group...yanno, replete with scripty white characters on black...stickers still on...

Yes I'd love to see some ideas other than a shimmed teeter totter or "rolling" these giant stones (face up then face down...not sure if that was for < 800t stones) to their location. Interesting thread...please continue...