Early human marine exploration of North America and their vessels

Wicketgood, there's definately Celtic in you, and one should never take lightly the fairey tale stories of fables and poems for often within the enhansements lies the hidden truths. The Greenland Sagas are living proof of that. The "corragh" an anchient boatbuilding technique used by the far northern peoples in the construction of their kayaks and whale boats. So you have included in your post, The Irish Curragh, Hannibal crossing the Alps (i think) and Shacklington's men in survival mode. Ok whats the riddle i'm suppose to solve here or is this just plain speculation on my part. Ok got one common thread, "boats", In historical order, Rafts, Skin boats, Wood boats. (smiley face) Geo.

 

The curraghs were certainly good to go around in.

 

It is a strange shape for a boat, a progression of the wheel. Another strange shape is the Beothuck canoe, the sheer is not a continious curve stem to stern but rises into a peak just as high as the bow and stern at midships on both sides. One explaination is it is less likely to take on water from a beam sea. They routinely travelled up to 20 miles to offshore islands to collect birds eggs. Will attempt a picture. Geo.

 

http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/mblen/Gr7_SS_empow.htm

 

Who are you? Hoyte you are a freakie man, here i am searching thru my texts for a good photo and all were so small i drew one. Whats next a Beothuck hologram, Nice photo --Geo.

 

I just know how to Google.

 

I thought of that but i am not computer savey enought to know how to download and transfer to this site. I would have to print it,scan it,and transfer to my photos,then resize and finally post.Where as you geeks simply cut and paste somehow. Back on track, no input on the trans frozen atlantic Iberian migration. I figured that would stir up a hornets nest of debate. For anyone interested in the topic of first peoples an excellent text is, The Settlement of The Americas by Thomas Dillenhay isbn# o-465-07669-6, For early native history i enjoyed, 1491 by Charles C. Mann, isbn #1-4000-3205-9. Geo.

 

All you have to do is find the photo. Right click. Select "Save photo as", then when you post, select "Go Advanced", then go to manage attachments, select photo from pictures file, upload, close manage attachments box, then post. Eezy peezy.

 

Done deal, i printed your instructions, and have them in my how to do computer things file. Now if i could do that with the keel on my new build wouldn't that be great. However one thing at a time. Thanks, Geo.

 

Is there any support for the information Gavin Menzies gives in his books "1421" and "1434"? He claims there is a pre-Columbian world map in the Vatican showing a recognizable depiction of both coasts of North and South America. Is it true that Chinese Admiral He visited Venice in those years and left the maps?

If so, there is proof that there were Chinese visits, trading, perhaps settlements since the last Ice age. There is a guy claining to have found evidence of a Chinese junk burried in the sand dunes of an Oregon state park, but can't get permission to dig. If true, that would be significant proof.

But any physical evidence of visitation by Siberians and others during an Ice Age whether by land migration or boat is lost under hundreds of meters of seawater. Parks Canada archaeologist Daryl Fedje has extensvely mapped the seafloor off Queen Charlotte Islands in order to locate sites with high probability for archeological evidence he claims to have found sites 5000, 9000 & 10200 years old.

E. James Dixon, curator of archaeology at the Denver Museum of Natural History has archaeological evidence (a human skull and processed animal bones) from a cave on Prince of Wales Island that a cave was inhabited 9200 years ago.

The Monterey Submarine Canyon would have been a major obstruction to land mgration. Perhaps to find a crossing, they turned inland far enough to have been above the present sealevel and perhaps archeological evidence can be found in the Santa Cruz Mtns.

C. Loring Brace, biological anthropologist at the University of Michigan, suggested that Japan's Jomon culture, which was fully adapted to maritime resources by about 13,000 years ago, and were ancestors to the Ainu of north Japan, the maritime tribes in the Northwest, and to peoples of Tierra del Fuego.

Dr. Moratto, author of "California Archaeology", has reviewed a Santa Rosa Island site, Arlington Springs, where human remains were reliably dated to around 10,000 years. Also another site on the island contains areas of reddish earth, said to be hearths, that have been radiocarbon dated variously to between 15,820 and 40,000 years ago.

There was a flint knapping site found at the edge of ancient Lake Manx in California that is maybe 15,000 years old.

From the La Brea Tar Pits in downtown Los Angeles, three long bones of a saber-toothed cat bear marks that seem to be knife cuts, and one of those bones was dated to 15,200 years ago.

In Daisy Cave on San Miguel Island, Jon Erlandson, a University of Oregon archaeologist, has discovered evidence of a maritime-oriented culture at least 11,600 calibrated radiocarbon years ago.

For a lot more evidence go to:
www.centerfirstamericans.com

Larry Modes

 

Boat of earliest west coast discoverers.

Part of the original question is what the boats were like. The Jomon hunted whale, so their boats were bluewater capable. Attached are pictures of 3 clay models of Jomon boats.







And more on the Kennewick Man.

"In 1996, scientist in Kennewick Washington found a complete skeleton of a 9,300-year-old man with "apparently Caucasoid" features similar to those found on Jomon people skulls. This so called "Kennewick Man" is thought to have descended from Jomon people or a common ancestors of the Jomon people.

"The oldest form of human DNA recovered in North America—dated to be around 10,300 years old—is common in type to that found in Japan and Tibet. Similar DNA has been found in native Americans all the way down the west coast of North and South America.

"These people had established themselves in America when a second migration came across the Bering Strait around 5,000 years ago. This second migration is most closely related to native Americans found in the United States today."

Extract from FIRST JAPANESE AND THE JOMON AND YAYOI PEOPLE
© 2009 Jeffrey Hays

Larry Modes

 

Boats of early east coast discoverers

In 1970 Thor Hyderdal sailed Ra II, a papyrus sail boat across the Atlantic from Morocco to Barbados. While this does not prove the Egyptians or other africans actually made such a voyage or when. (I'm using a broad definition of "european" meaning east of Atlantis.) It shows it was possible for a disabled ship of that sort to drift to the Americas.

The Greeks had legend of a land west of the Gates of Hercules. Perhaps it had a factual basis in a voyage by some non-Greek to and return from North or South America. Perhaps in a boat lke Ra-II?



The Irish have a mythology of the Island of St Brennan, Or was he the monk that sailed west to find the island? Was it based on a real, much earlier, voyage ? He may have used a skin boat like the photos you posted earlier.

Larry Modes

 

http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/northam/na01.html#Chinese

" Finally, a few doughnut-shaped stones have been found off the California coast; there's no way to prove it, but some believe these could have been anchors from Chinese ships like Hwui Shan's.

One more Chinese story may be the most amazing of all. Chinese legend reports that around 2250 B.C., China was devastated by a terrible flood. After the country had recovered, Yu, the official in charge of the recovery effort, was sent out on mapping expeditions, to see how the flood might have affected the rest of the world. After Yu returned, he became king of China (the founder of the Xia dynasty, traditional date 2205 B.C.), and his report was preserved as a work called the Shan Hai King. Originally the Shan Hai King had thirty-two books, but only eighteen have survived through the ages, and they have been edited and condensed many times, especially around 200 B.C., when scholars were trying to rewrite the books that had been destroyed in a recent wave of book-burnings. At that time they looked at the Shan Hai King, and failed to find many of the mountains and other places described in it, so they changed its classification from geography to mythology. That was the way things stood until the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, when a few Western scholars took at look at the work. Their conclusion was that the Shan Hai King's author intended it to be a scientific journal, not a collection of made-up stories."

 

An excellent reference for this topic is Samuel Eliot Morison's "European Discovery of America - The Northern Voyages", (cannot underline). It was current at its 1974 publish date.

 

Done.