Dutch Barge long distance cruisers

Agree

I agree with you on the use of steel and see where you're coming from with your affilitation with Euroship. The designs are well thought out and beautiful. Unfortunately, in the US, Dutch style barges have been too exoensive to import, and the interest in Dutch Barge style cruising vessels is just becoming popular. as a live aboard option. We may have to rely on a Naval Architect from the Netherlands to produce a Dutch Barge design for construction in the US. It would have to be associated with kits and home building. Euroship and other builder of Dutch barges have a staff of professional welders available. In the US we would have to work with contract welders on a part time basis similar to producing individual on-off boats.

 

Material considerations, going to Bahama's

From Euroship only the Vripack Survey and Vripack Trawler Yacht would be capable of cruising to the Bahama's safely.

I also agree on steel as a building material for boats this size. Steel is very cheap. But ... Interior costs play a big role in total buiding costs and in a steel boat you have to build a wooden one for interior. This is where you can safe money when you build a wooden boat.

For an inexperienced home builder wood is also a good choice. But.... Anyone can learn to weld.

One more question:

how important is the sail option?

 

Wooden design

The strip plank building method is probably the best for a layman. Almost any Dutch barge could cross from Miami to Bimini, Bahamas when the wind is out of the south. There is usually only about 2 foot seas. Most cruisers normally depart from Biscayne Bay around midnight so as to take advantage of night calms and to reach the Bhamas reefs in daylight.

 

Wooden Barge simplicity

I believe also that it would be significantly easier for lay people to assemble a wooden boat and advocate simplicity of design to promote that end. Simplicity is directly related to economy of building, and therefore would attract a greater number of people. Any design ideas?

 

A calm day.

On a calm day you could try it in an Optimist dinghy this does not make it a suitable vessel.

I WW2 Germany had plans to invade England useing barges, many seaman in Holland still would like to have seen what had happended if they tried, even if they waited for a calm day.

(sorry to mention a war here please do not continue on this subject)

 

Weather not withstanding

With the Dutch barge design, the trip to Bimini was used as an example in that once there, cruising the Bahamsa Banks top other islands is not a problem. Once again, the goal of the design is for river, Erie, Oswego and Champlain canals and ICW travel with optimum livability.

 

Going back to the steel thing; the main reason that 'barges' are built in steel is about protection of the contents (no matter what type). So if you can GAURANTEE you will not hit or be HIT By anything don't build in steel, if however you intend to use your vessel in waters used by others, especially commercial vessels then steel is the way to go, for your safety as much as anything else - it's not that commercial bargee's don't care they just don't have the time or manpower to treat every thing like it's made of egg shells!

Greenseas2 you say your an airplane pilot, do you only land at private strips, and what happens (God forbid) if you have an emergency and need to land quick - "Oh sorry Mr Control Tower I can't land on your airfield, it has commercial traffic and my little areoplane won't like it!"

As I said depends where your doing your boating!

 

"With the cost of housing today, as well as property taxes, the Dutch barge would be a great option for people in just about every walk of life. Long term advantages are (1) no taxes, (2) more than adequate living space for a small family, (3) the ability to cruise economically (4) own an aesthetically pleasing vessel. The goal of the thread is to come up with design ideas that can be practically applied to creating a design and layout that be economically built buy a couple of dedicated people."

Unfortunatly with the death of the USCG (now the homeland security federal marine police) much of their "expertise" has been passed on to local communities.

With the old USCG anchoring was part of naigation , a protected right.

Today every tiny town and satrap now "owns" all the water as far as their ignorant greedy eyes can see.
So a place to anchor will be very restricted by liveaboard rulles and FEES.

Slips will run as much as $3.00 per ft per night , $120 per night does not seem in the range of 40ft box boat vagrants.
Here in FL "cheap" is $1.25 a foot per night + electric , but it requires a 6 month advance payment IN FULL.

"Once again, the goal of the design is for river, Erie, Oswego and Champlain canals and ICW travel with optimum livability."

On the Riddeau canal the barges were wood, so when the canal filles to within 4 or 6 inches of the top , little damage was incurred if the barge contacted the stone lock walls.

This is a very difficult situation to fender for on a steel box that will need the usual 6 or 7 coats of paint when scratched.

Boats are great fun , but a solution to high housing prices there not.

FAST FRED

 

docking and mooring

Fred,
I'm in Florida also in Port St. Lucie. The latest legislation permits people to tie up along the ICW and Okeechobee Waterways free of charge. My boat is here at Club Med and there is a anchorage where people put down there own morrings, at no charge. The Stuart causeway and Peck Lake which are near Suart on the ICW also have several live aboards there. In running tugs and barges as well as small frieghters, it is a common sight to see live aborad boats along the ICW and rivers. It is also common to see people commuting to jobs in dinghies from live aboards. People who live on their boats year around are an ingenious cross section of society and adapt their chosen life style to their needs. Being that they anchor/moor outside of active channels, the choice of wooden and fiberglass construction is appropriate to meet the needs. I have also met several widows/widowers who live aboard due to necessity and little retirement income. They're as nice as your next door neighbor. These are folks who can afford avessel costing a couple of hundred thousand dollars. A further consideration is that the price of steel has sky rocketed over the past two years.

 

"I'm in Florida also in Port St. Lucie. The latest legislation permits people to tie up along the ICW and Okeechobee Waterways free of charge. My boat is here at Club Med and there is a anchorage where people put down there own morrings, at no charge."

Here in Ortona there is no problem with an anchored vessel. The problem is here there is no "public" land to get from the boat to a road.

Tresspassing in FL , with the finest gun laws in the USA , might be risky , to say the least.

A town that has a public dock , parking and free garbage disposal is rare.
In nearby La Belle there is a free dock , with water & electric too!

But the limit is 3 days , although the Canadians violate that over & over & over & over, some need to be cut loose to leave.

Seems FREE is the Canadian National Religion after the Gov has siezed all their money for "insurance" schemes.

Come on over to Ortona for a visit , we have 300 ft of dock space thats usually open.

FAST FRED

 

Docking

Hi Fred,
I haven't found any problems in tying up to the bank. I would guess that it might be OK to make arrangement with a land owner to have a right of way across his property if you guarantee not to tear it up. Most of the boats the tie up to the bank, either to trees or by pounding stakes in the ground, is just for over night. I've come through your area several times with both commercial vessels and my own. We'll be doing it more frequently now since my brother in law moved to Ft. Myers. He's a darned good sailer and was with me on the schooner during Hurricane Bertha.
Duane

 

Barge seagoing ability

I know I'm late on this thread, but wonder if anyone would care to expound on why they seem to think the Dutch barge style would have such bad sea-keeping ability. I know its not a North Sea read passagemaker or something, but from the other accounts I've read of crossing (fairly rough) English Channels, etc. it doesn't look like it would be that bad.

The Dutch certainly seemed to use that design for a long time

Not trying to be argumentative... trying to learn.

Thanks!

Bruce

 

You are correct

The Dutch have been using the motor barges in the English channel for decades. Most of the time they were loaded with cargo and very few times light ship. Another design similar to the Durch barge in hull form were the flat bottom Scottish and Irish Puffers (VICs) that were continually in open water and have an excellent safety record.

 

Barge definition

Found a reasonable definition of barge at wikipedia.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barge. When you let loose this definition on boats the dutch have been and are using and try to define a tipical dutch barge (which does not exist) you have to look at the first picture Sander Rave posted a sort of offspring is the first picture i posted. No Dutch barge by this definition has ever entered the North Sea, including the Enlish Channel, under control of a sane sailor.

If you want a boat for these sort of waters do not call it a barge.

 

Description

The definition of thwe cruising Dutch Barge is similar to the working variety which are more in the freighter catagory. I spent quite a bit of time in Ghent and Rotterdam and, in fact, did see freight motor barges at sea. The definition is only to the appearance of the vessel rather than the true Dutch barge. Same with freight barges in Germany. Even though many barges have been turned in to residences, the cruising barge design is quite seaworthy under noramal conditions.