Dutch Barge long distance cruisers

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Greenseas2, Apr 18, 2006.

  1. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    It would seem that the new Dutch Motor barge replicas would be great long range boats for ICW and coastwise motoring. They are spacious and have the capacity to carry sufficient fuel for a trip of 1,000 miles or better. They are also seaworthy and continually cross the English Channel in all kinds of weather. Below there's enough space for three passenger cabins, a couple of heads and a salon/galley with enough room behind the pilot house for crew quarters. The pilothouses on most Dutch barges have windows on all four sides for excellent visibility while going along the waterways. Power for the 45 foot Dutch barfes is mderate and you won't set any speed record, but you will travel in unparalleled comfort. Selway Fisher has a good plan for this type of vessel that can be made of strip plank rather than steel. Thoughts?
     
  2. Sander Rave
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    Location: Amsterdam; The Netherlands

    Sander Rave Senior Member

    Keep a powerfull bow thruster at hand for crowded places. Wind is a serious partner.
    I've been sailing an old one (32m) without a thruster, on a bussy day it can be pretty tricky crossing bridges etc.
     
  3. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Ballast and single engine power

    Thanks for the input. For over 50 years I've been operating single engine boats and occassionally single engine tugs with 200 to 400 foot tows. High sided barges can be a little difficult in high winds, but the answer to handling them is more in line with forward ballast tanks than thruster. Personally, the less machinery on board is the less machiery that can fail and require expensive maintenance. We operate in one of the most densely populated areas of the US for boats, South Florida. I try my level best to prevent really close proximity situations when navigating through a lot of other vessels. If situations arise, it is wise to reduce speed to minimum steerage way so that if you need to maneuver suddenly, you can jam the throttle forward and get maximum thrust to the rudder for turning. More a matter of seamanship than equipment.
     
  4. Sander Rave
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    Sander Rave Senior Member

    You know what you're talking about

    So I don't have to warn you for these things.
    Two nice pics though: one for your interrest and the other on a sunny day in our little crowded country. I was refering to this kind of populated places. You have a hard time maneuvring with little or no speed and nowhere to go.

    I agree with you on the seamanship, but the truth is somewhere inbetween though (as always ;-)
     

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  5. SeaSpark
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    SeaSpark -

    Dutch Barges

    Could you specify "Dutch Motor barge replica" a bit more, no traditional dutch barge could cross the north sea safely. Also the pilot house confuses me.

    I have been sailing in holland for many years and have seen all types of barges.

    The two pictures represent a barge converted to cruiser (will never be seaworthy) and a modernized traditional cruiser (later variants were developed that are seaworthy).
     

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  6. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Sander, I see what you mean with the congestion. Good place not to be even with twin engines and thruster. LOL
    SEASPARK: The newer versions of replica barges are indeed seaworthy and not flat bottom. With the pilothouse I was referring to thee one on the right in your photos. I've spent sa lot of time in Ghent Belgium and have admired the replicas that I have seen. I even saw one with a sail attached where the forward mast is and had an opportunity to speak with the owner. Many changes being made in thee world of replicas.
     
  7. yipster
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    yipster designer

    [​IMG]
    this is a rebuild barge? than i sure want to live on it again! once had thoughts shortening the big old barge i lived on as was occasionally done
     
  8. SeaSpark
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    SeaSpark -

    Linssen DS

    You could call the Linssen DS a development of a traditional dutch motor cruiser.

    In general i don't like the traditional cruisers that much, sailors in Holland have all kinds of unkind names for them (strijkijzer of zetpil bijvoorbeeld), you asked for an opinion so.... , but the Linssen DS i like a lot.

    It won the 2002 yacht design award on this site:

    http://boatdesign.net/archive/linssen_yachts.htm
     

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  9. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Nice boat

    This appears to be a nice boat but probably has twin engines. The thought of the thread was to look for and identify Dutch barge cruising boats that can be used as full time homes as well as cruise economically. As an example, boats such as the Seway Fiosher design Teign River Gravel Barge might be a starting point for novices.
     
  10. SeaSpark
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    SeaSpark -

    Teign motor barge

    The selway Fisher Teign motor barge seems very economical to me in way of power needed and lenght/livingroom ratio. It is not typically dutch.

    Could you explain what you are missing in this design.

    Yipster: I tried to make a distinction between "barge converted to cruiser" and a "modernized traditional cruiser" two different but typical kinds of motor cruisers in holland.
     
  11. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Teign River Gravel Barge

    There are two parts of the design that leave me cold. The first is the stern with outboard rudder. I like the traditional round stern. The second is the pilothouse is not of the traditional Dutch barge design with helm station , around seating and table found in most replicas and commercial barges. I understand thAt Paul Fisher is designing a 45 foot barge to be built in steel. Hopefully that one will be more traditional. The advantage of building your own is that you can install additional fuel tanks during the building process.
    Most of the European precut kits that I have seen are too expensive for the average person to build and furnish. A Naval Architect friend of mine, Tom MacNaughton has designed a canal barge also, but the pilothouse here also leaves something to be desired. For ICW, northern canals and river work, it wouldn't be too hard to design a barge to be built of plywood, fiberglass cloth and epoxy in the 45 foot length. The key to the suitability of the Dutch barge design is liveability and cruising with a small engine for long distances without the frequent need to refuel and take on water. Your thoughts?
     
  12. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "For ICW, northern canals and river work, it wouldn't be too hard to design a barge to be built of plywood, fiberglass cloth and epoxy in the 45 foot length"

    For the ICW it might be fine , but in anyplace where there ARE barges,

    Some days you tie to a barge.
    Somedays the barge ties to YOU.

    Would be rather leery of 75+ tons coming alongside , very often.

    Why not purchase an old LST and install a house trailer?
    Lots of room , low cost & up keep , no worries about alongside barges.

    FAST FRED
     
  13. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Private cruising barges, not commercial

    The Dutch barge is a cruising vessel not a commercial barge and therefore wouldn't be positioned where heavier barges would tie up to it. Essentially, the original Dutch barges were flat bottomed cargo carriers, many of which have been converted to live aboards in Europe. The best attributes of the Dutch barge design is lots of internal volume, low power requirements and relatively long range. Great for those who want to live aboard and cruise inland waterways. The new replicas have either hard or round chines and are OK for moderate near coastal or island travel from Florida to the Bahamas. l'm also an aviator, rotor and fixed wing.
     
  14. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Landing craft not an option

    Hi Fred. An LST is over 300 feet long, an LSV is 374 feet and an LCU is 174 feet. I believe that you might mean a LCM 6 or LCM 8. Both are twin engine and expensive to both run and maintain. The idea with the Dutch barge concept is to develope the Dutch barge design in the US where folks of modest means can build a spacious vessel to live aboard and cruise with. With the cost of housing today, as well as property taxes, the Dutch barge would be a great option for people in just about every walk of life. Long term advantages are (1) no taxes, (2) more than adequate living space for a small family, (3) the ability to cruise economically (4) own an aesthetically pleasing vessel. The goal of the thread is to come up with design ideas that can be practically applied to creating a design and layout that be economically built buy a couple of dedicated people. Rather than plywood, Selway Fisher uses strip plank, fiberglass cloth and epoxy for a sturdy long lasting hull.
     

  15. Windvang
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Rotterdam,The Netherlands

    Windvang Yacht Designer

    Dutch barges are in steel because:
    A: it's cheap and strong.
    B: It gives the desired weight to get volume in the boat.

    See: http://www.euroshipservices.nl/ for plans and pictures (in Dutch)
     
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