Does this place need a 'trailering' section?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    And what is so hard about launching a trailerable boat over 26' as I've read in Option One and other treads?

    Besides swinging wide turns what is so 'difficult' about a trailer over 26' assuming it wont become your 'daily driver' and be limited to going to the ramp and back (and you don't live 'in the hills')?

    Could someone supply a diagram of 'typical launch ramp' and show me were things don't clear for over 26' boats(of various design)?

    What are the (if any) standards used in launch ramps both of recent and older installation?

    Are there any classes of ramp, such as how long the ramp extends into the water, what the grade of the ramp is?

    How about a "How To" for designing/homebuilding boat trailers for boat of certain size/weight? Is there a 'scantlings' schedule for this? DMV regs for trailer frame, etc?

    I've know a couple people that seemed to think they could easily build their own trailers for twin engine 25' sedan crusiers by the seat of the pants or 'eyeballing' it.

    How do I tell a good trailer/boat match from a bad one?
     
  2. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    PS What about using a winch to haul the loaded trailer

    up to a stationary tow vehicle (parked on lesser grade) as several times I've seen people use an extra tow vehicle in line to pull heavy boats up the ramp?

    I figure a truck with all brakes locked on dry land using a winch would have more pull than the trucks engine/trans.
     
  3. ted655
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    ted655 Senior Member

    Well, that's quite a can of worms for questions. Many will need their own thread. Some have no hard & fast answer. There are too many "depends" to them.
    .
    I will comment on this one.
    " How do I tell a good trailer/boat match from a bad one?"
    First look at the balance between the trailer & the wheels. Too little tongue weight will cause the hoocy-koocy at legal speeds, whipping the tow vehicle back & forth. Too much & the tow vehicle will be too light in the front end causing poor steering control.
    Next look at how the boat is supported by the trailer. Are the bunks spaced and positioned to support the whole bottom, without "hard spots" that touch small areas?
    Are the rollers in the right spots so as to self align the boat as it it's loading?
    Is the winch at the proper height to cleanly pull & hold the boat? Is the line of pull on the bow eye too steep at the final resting spot?
    Are side rails & guide ons present & placed correctly?
    Are the axels matched to the load? are the tires heavy duty "trailer" rated? Is the frame heavy enough & braced to suit the load? Is there good clearance around fenders?
    Is ball size matched to load? Brakes & braking device large enough?
    .
    That will get you close I betcha.
    Are ALL lights visable after the boat is loaded/
    R
     
  4. TerryKing
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    A Trailering section??

    I'd vote for that. It should probably include all the "Getting the boat in and out of the water" issues, including big not-trailerable boats. Maybe something like "Launch and Recovery"?? We all hope to be at the point where this subject is the current one, after long periods On The Hard!
     
  5. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    The big problem of a "trailering" forum is that it will hit quickly very different national regulations for trailers and towing and that will fragment audience by countries.

    You have driving licence problem or different legal width (For example, UK has a maximum width of 2.3m (7'6") for most towing cars. US width seems to be 8'6").

    You have also trailer certification. It is next to impossible to find a trailer with disk brakes, or electric brakes in europe, for instance. Costs to certify and legalize such things are so high that nobody is interested in.
     
  6. SAE140

    SAE140 Guest

    On balance I think there *may* be a case for a 'Trailering Forum' so long as it is subdivided into (say) a small number of regional areas - say 'North America', 'Europe' and 'General' for starters. Then see how it goes ...
    Some of the reasons for subdivision have already been mentioned - different road regs etc., as well as the varying provision of slipways between countries.

    Re: trailers - there's no form of certification for trailers in the UK. Sure, trailers must be roadworthy - i.e. comply with the Road Regs (Construction and Use etc) particularly with regard to lights and brakes - but there's no official means of testing 'em for compliance (!) - so if you decide to build your own trailer then you can only hope and pray it'll pass any road-side checks. UK law is also vague and unhelpful for self-build trailers - can anyone precisely define 'road-friendly' suspension, the absence of which is a fineable offence ?

    Colin
     
  7. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    In france, trailers heavier than 500kg gross weigth must be certified. But if you use CEE certified trailer components for axle, wheel and tyres, braking system, draw bar, coupling system, lights, the certification is human manageable.

    I think it is same for german, that's why you have company selling CEE certified trailer subsystems such as http://www.knott-anhaenger-shop.de/index.php (in deutch).
     
  8. SAE140

    SAE140 Guest

    Sure - the CE-marking system will work for future trailer builds, but doesn't help much with existing trailers, some of which were built many years before the EU came into existence.
    I'm not sure what the legal position is regarding a trailer which is road-legal in one EU country when transiting another EU country in which it may be considered illegal.
    A damned minefield.

    Another inconsistent area is that of tow hitches - a private car MUST fit a EU-approved tow-bar, yet commercial vehicles which can tow much heavier trailers are permitted to fit custom-built non-approved tow-bars. As our American cousins say - "go figure".

    Colin
     
  9. Basjan
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Basjan Basjan

    Having a thread on trailer design relating to boats might be of interest. Leave all the regulations and laws aside as every country have there own specs and regulations regarding trailers.

    A good trailer design is a must for any small boat owner.
    Locally a lot of boats are launched from the surf, and therefor we use "break neck trailers". The towbar of the trailer either swivels on the axle or on hinges independantly from the part of the trailer that supports and carries the boat. When the boat is secure on the trailer, the two parts are locked together with pins or bolts. This helps with the recovery of big boats upto and exceeding 26'.
     
  10. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    No, you cannot talk trailering ignoring laws. The very example of "broken neck trailer" you use is simply prohibited in france. You need a rigid tow bar, rigid fixed by law. You can see there http://www.rsa-fr.com/Fichiers/Brochures-Remorques/France/DOC_PB_SAT.pdf commercial documentation of the whole range of a big french trailer manufacturer. None are as you describe.
     
  11. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    I was wrong. There is a small trailer with a broken neck. (on the inflatable page). But this trailer is probably under the certification weight.

    Another issue that can be seen. I am not sure if all countries allow rear lights on a sliding/removable support, and allow boat overhang rear of the trailer.
     
  12. ted655
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    ted655 Senior Member

    Many things would be designed & built completely different if they didn't have to comply with laws or codes or standards.
    Until the fuel price got so high here in the US, boat trailers were really just an afterthought. Most were built as cheaply as possible toi keep the package price as low as possible.
    Only recently have I seen new designs & materials being used. Now it's not uncommon for a trailer to be sold separately from the boat. Often you have a choice of "which" trailer you want in the package.
    The new bent I-beam aluminum trailers look awesome, BUT, how do they hold up after hard use? A trailer forum would help answer such questions.
    Myself, I am enjoying learning about trailers used in other country's & the laws concerning launching & loading.
     
  13. Basjan
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    Basjan Basjan

    If discussing trailer design you have to ignore the regulations and laws as they vary from country to country. Over 50 countries with each having his own regulations is to much to discuss.

    It will be upto the builder to find out if certain designs / configurations / features are allowable under his countries laws.

    In my country the trailers must conform to certain standards, eg. proper color light, reflective tape on the side, proper chevron / reflectors at the rear and safety chain on the towhitch. Chevron boards with all the lights, and number plates do not have to be afixed permanently to the trailer, just have a board hung on the stern of the boat with long enougth cable to reach the vehicle. Trailers supporting the boat partially is admissable.

    Let's be practical and look at what is / makes a good,
    practical and workable trailer and what makes a good ramp.
     
  14. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    There's a bit of discussion about trailers on a thread I started here:

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17763

    It's true that varying laws make many ideas near impossible to translate from one country to another. It's also true that there appears to have been few advances in trailer technology anywhere!
     

  15. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    No. There are notable advances : http://www.zbinden-posieux.ch/trailerstop/rac_f.htm

    This system is just an ALB and ABS device for trailers. Even got CEE approval.

    There are only 2 small probems.

    1) I don't know how this system is compatible with sea water.

    2) The braking system is more expensive than the boat that will be put on the trailer.
     
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