Do single hypersurface equation make me boat designer ?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mustafaumu sarac, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. mustafaumu sarac
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    mustafaumu sarac Junior Member

    Boat design , sculptures , archictecture , design , art , math , physics , chemistry , biology , thermodynamics , topology, mechanics ,hydrodynamics ,
    acoustics , electronics and many more things are obsession for me. I read a book 30 years ago - descartes - tells dive in to subjects and mix them.

    I love the era of 1950s and their efficient design concept. I could not adapt to later profit driven design concept.

    Boat design has always been a mystery to me, just like looking to a Brancusi sculpture.

    I want to understand how I can make science with a 1950s sculpture ideas. Twisted bird wings made by bronze casting , or a vitalized british sculpture.

    Now, I am looking in to math generated sculptures for a long time and I found that modern hull is a hypersurface just like a modern sculpture.

    And I found that hypersurfaces are described by single equation.

    Now is it possible to design a boat, stabile boat with single equation.

    Is there a way to write a single hypersurface equation which will support stability also ?

    Mustafa Umut Sarac
    Istanbul
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    You sound like a Renaissance man, Mustafa ! Are we to understand that the statue of David can be fully described by an equation ? Perish the thought !
     
  3. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Initially, perhaps back in the 80s of the last century, computers began to become popular in large companies and, in the naval sector, some began to look for the equation that defined the surface of the hull. Soon, fortunately for the world, they realized that this, that perhaps could be achieved, was a useless job because it would result in enormous equations, impossible to manage with the necessary agility. So they started looking for several equations, patches. that together properly, allow to work with them with "comfort". And that was the great advance of science in this field. Fortunately, on very rare occasions, humanity learns from its mistakes.
     
  4. nzboy
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    nzboy Senior Member

    A2 +B2 =C2 is all you need to design a surface on a boat
     
  5. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

  6. tlouth7
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    tlouth7 Junior Member

    Check out the cosine wherry, designed so that the underwater areas form a cos curve in the length axis, and the transonic aircraft Whitcomb area rule (which is not applicable directly to boats). Also 'fair' curves that have historically been generated using long, flexible battens are described by quadratic equations. It is not unthinkable to combine some of these localised equations into an overall one that fully describes the hull shape, but would this be better? More controllable? More aesthetic? Lower drag? I doubt it

    Area rule - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_rule
     
  7. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    It is not necessary to unite them all in a single surface, for what? The various patches that together form the "surface" of the hull are related in such a way that when modifying one of them, the contiguous patches are modified maintaining the boundary conditions that were established between them, equal tangents and equal curvatures in their common edges
    We do not work with a single equation but with multiple parametric equations, third or fourth order, each of which defines a patch.
    Unfortunately the trigonometric equations or the conic curves are not always applicable and the designer, in general, needs to choose the hull that best satisfies his SOR and not make the hull that the simple equations allow.
     
  8. mustafaumu sarac
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    mustafaumu sarac Junior Member

    Various patches , various connections between patches makes everything harder. I cant do that. Single equations are good. I wrote to physics forum and your and their replies will sail the thread. In 1950s socialist environment , soviets and nordic countries started a idea , single design for the whole world and this design might produced with most efficient way. When you go to ikea , all the designs depends on single equation , hyper ellipse.

    Even i phone design , older mac designs depends on single equation , hyper ellipse.

    I read and know cosine wherry and its a brilliant idea to be remembered. But now its for hypersurfaces time for me. And after that thread , I am thinking to open for your idea , make a fair cosine hull.

    If patches are in our grasp area , please give their equations or papers.
     
  9. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Yes, the equations can give you a hull.

    But if you have to pull your motors to change the oil filters on your luxury catamaran (and they charge more for it that you do for a valve job at your Porche dealership) or if all the projecting hard surfaces turn your disabled friendly restroom into a death trap for grandma should seas get rough you'll probably wonder what exactly the blank a designer was doing once he had the hull (or just have yourself to blame in those rare circumstances).

    I've got no doubts that with the tools and scantling rules available I could design an affordable boat that mechanically functioned and given a large enough boat (and enough cash) I'm sure I could come up with an arrangement that was livable to a relatively few passengers most luxury craft seem to be designed for ... but a really good arrangement in an affordable boat or good mechanicals in a larger? There's the rub.
     
  10. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    What is your source of that information?
    Can you provide an example? Otherwise it is speculation.
     
    Wayne Grabow likes this.
  11. mustafaumu sarac
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    mustafaumu sarac Junior Member

    study your lesson , david , google is your friend.
     
  12. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The only Google return I got for "Ikea hyper-ellipse" that had all of that in it, was this very thread.
     
  13. mustafaumu sarac
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    mustafaumu sarac Junior Member

    search as hyper ellipse
     
  14. Wayne Grabow
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    Wayne Grabow Senior Member

    He asked for an example, not an internet search.
     

  15. mustafaumu sarac
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    mustafaumu sarac Junior Member

    without understanding what is super ellipse , he cant understand anything , is typing and pressing that much difficult ?
     
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