Difference between Class rules, Flags and conventions.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by thpphrsis, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. thpphrsis
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    thpphrsis New Member

    Hi all im pretty new to naval architecture. Could someone point to me in the right direction of the difference between class rules, flags and conventions. And how they all adds up together?

    If they all have an individual set of rule and all of them act independently on its on. How should I know which i.e damage stability criteria I should follow?
     
  2. rishabhk28
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    rishabhk28 NAVAL ARCHITECT

    Here's a simple explanation for all of 3 terms you asked:

    Every country has it's own "Organisation" or government body which makes sure the international rules and regulations are followed by the registered vessel. A flag state also makes its own set of maritime rules and regulations for enforcement on it's registered vessels. The rules and regulations are for enforcement of safety of passengers, Crew, prevention of pollution of water etc.

    Classification society: it's a independent body, which has rules and regulation for safe design, construction and operation of a vessel. The vessel classed by a specific society means it follows the rules and regulation made by the class for it's design, construction & operation of the vessel.
    for e.g. a ship classed by ABS will have it's hull scantlings, detail drawings, welding procedures, steel grades used for construction, machineries etc. approved by the ABS.
    Sometimes a vessel is dual classed, that means two or more classification societies will form a team and take the task of classification of the vessel during the design, construction and operation phase of the vessel. it's as per the discretion of the owner to decide the classification society for it's vessels!

    By Conventions I think you are asking about the IMO conventions: IMO conventions are a set of rules ratified by the member bodies of the IMO. The conventions are signed by the member bodies and are later implemented by the respective governments individually.
    for eg: The BWM convention, HKC(Ship recycling), MARPOL etc (it's advisable to check the IMO website for details of the various maritime conventions)

    A flag state has jurisdiction over its vessel, so even if the plans are approved by the classification society, the Flag state has to approve it after i.e. statutory plans. Flag state conducts periodic surveys on it vessels to ensure their rules are followed!
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Flag states also regulate crews and operations. For example, in the USA ships have to be built in the country, all crew must be American and the ship can not be foreign owned or have been operated under a foreign flag ever. Other countries have more lax rules.
     
  4. rishabhk28
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    rishabhk28 NAVAL ARCHITECT

    I've also heard that American built ships must be classed under ABS, is it true ?
     
  5. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I do not know what you're using to say that. What laws are you talking about exactly?
    I'm not sure but I think it all depends on the country that flags the boat, regardless of where it is built. The thing is not as simple as you imply.
    I do not believe that such protectionism is imposed in the country of the free market.
    But I would like to read comments on both subjects.
     
  6. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    No, they don't, but they do have to meet US Code of Federal Regulations and have US Coast Guard approval. It is important to remember that the classification society rules are not for ship or personnel safety, they are to protect the vessels invertors and insurers. Flag state rules as they implement local (i.e IALA buoyage A or B) or international requirements (i.e. SOLAS) is what actually drives the safety of the vessel, crew, and passengers.
     
  7. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Some time ago I downloaded PDFs of early 20th century The Rudder magazine from Google Books, which were available for most years from 1901 up til 1922 IIRC,

    There were, post WW1, any number of articles dedicated to the handwringing over the US losing what had become its wartime share of the merchant marine and lack of competiveness because foreign crews would often take lower wages than American.

    I would not be surprised if many of the specific statutes weren't at least strengthened during that era, if not from it.
     
  8. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Do not confuse the Jones Act with the requirements for a ship to be US flagged, they are different things.
     
  9. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    As often TANSL is your question based on a partly quote (post #5), while the posted text (post #3) clearly states to which is referred to there.
     
  10. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Actually, that is only a Jones Act requirement for cabotage laws, i.e. trade between US ports. It is not true for US flagged vessels operating OCONUS trade. A US flagged vessel must be owned by a US entity and crewed by US licensed mariners. It does not have to be US built. Compare the ships built for Matson (Kanaloa class) to those built for Maersk (such as the MAERSK OHIO).
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  11. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Some questions TANSL,
    1. - How do you come to such nonsense that's there anywhere a country of a free market*, and that there was said anything like it on this thread ?
    * ‘‘ In a free market, the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government or other authority and from all forms of economic privilege, monopolies and artificial scarcities. ¹ ’’ (from The Open Society and Its Enemies - still for sale in a one-volume edition)
    2. - More so since in every country on earth the market has to meet the rules of that country, or do you know any exception ?
    3. - And why ask for comments on subjects on something you've just made up yourself ?
    4. - Or are you twisting and turning it into something that wasn't said at all, just for polemic sake, as you do so often ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  12. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    I seem to remember reading about ships flying the Paraguay flag so I'm betting even some land locked countries have rules governing maritime trade.
     
  13. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Jane's lists no merchant fleet for Bolivia, but Paraguay has a merchant fleet and a navy listed in Jane's. To quote Wikipedia..
     
  14. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Landlocked countries like the Asian Mongolia and the South American Bolivia are actively seeking to register merchant sea ships and yachts.

    Mongolia PDFMSR (Mongolia Ship Registry)Reputation
    ‘‘ . . . Incentives: Very competitive fees. Low registration tax, low annual tonnage tax, low annual radio tax, no hidden costs, no lawyer's fees, no additional costs to set up owning company. No profit tax or capital gain tax or other taxes except those indicated above. No restriction on crew nationality. All STCW certificates of competency are recognised. International safety and pollution prevention standards are applied. Easy Service. Accessibility 24 hours a day, quick response time, professional service, certificates issued within the hour. One-stop service for registration, radio licence, survey, certification, etc. Choice of authorised surveyors or classification societies (all IACS members recognised). Not subject to requisition as national resources.

    Eligibility for Registration: There are no restrictions on the ownership of any ship registered in the Mongolia Ship Registry. Any legal entity capable of owning ships under the law of the country in which it is established or domiciled may be registered as owner. Any vessel used in navigation, including non-propelled vessels and pleasure yacht may be registered in the Mongolia Ship Registry. . . . ’’


    Bolivia's RIBB (Registro Internacional Boliviano de Buques = Bolivian International Registry of Ships) is about the same in practice, but since they've lost their short Pacific coastline to Chile in a 1878 conflict, and Bolivia doesn't legally recognize their sovereign Pacific access cut off, they still claim to be operating as a sea state. Arica in northern Chile serves due to agreements as a free port for Bolivia to the Pacific, and Bolivia like Paraguay has access to the Atlantic over the in post #13 mentioned large Paraguayan rivers and waterways to the east, Paraguay has a large merchant fleet of large inland container ships there, but Bolivia is more active to register world wide sea ships because of their historical claims as a sea state.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019

  15. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Bolivia also has an old treaty with Brazil to use Porto Velho as access to the ocean. It includes a railroad to Guajara Mirim.
     
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