Diesel Ducks

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by kelp, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. kelp
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    kelp Junior Member

    George Buehler now has plans for a 34' Diesel Duck. Google Diesel Duck 34' to see plans. I am considering building in aluminum. Mr Buehler said that he's not familiar with aluminum but has a friend that could supply aluminum scantlings. The plans at present are only available in plywood. I suppose, even though I'm not a boat designer, i could do the conversion myself using Gerr's "Elements Of Strength" My question is does anybody care to comment on the Diesel Duck series. The 34' looks a little chunky but I can live with that. The 34' is at the limit of my budget so the better looking 38' and up are out of the question. The most important consideration for me is seaworthiness. Any other suggestions for a long range displacement cruiser around 34'. The reason I like the Diesel Ducks is that many have been built and cruised extensively and i haven't heard any serious downside to these boats. Thanks for any comments. Dave
     
  2. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Where's the logic in building an extremely heavy displacement design in a relatively lightweight material and method?

    Even in heavy wood construction it will take 1000's of pounds of ballast to get this little boat to 32,000 pounds displacement. In aluminum with heavy interior you will come out at about 20-22,000 pounds (with 3-4,000 lbs ballast). PPI is about 1400 lbs so you're floating 7" high with associated reduction in stability.

    As usual George's required power estimates are completely erroneous. With a 33'4" LWL, 11' WL beam, and at 32,000 lbs disp. she will require 12HP at 5.6 knots, 19HP at 6.2knots, 27HP at 6.8 knots, 42HP at 7.4 knots, and 61HP at 8 knots. George would know this if he checked with the owner's of these boats instead of endlessly quoting "computer" numbers.

    The arrangement is hard to justify in a supposedly simple 34" design. Two cabins will make more sense, and be quicker, easier to build, and nicer to live in. The separate aft cabin requires it's own source of heat, it's own ventilation, access, windows, electrical circuit, etc. Not worth it my opinion, but owner's usually have other ideas.
     
  3. diverdon
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    diverdon Junior Member

  4. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    A 55' boat with a displacement figure of 2000 pounds less than the 34' mentioned above.
     
  5. diverdon
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    diverdon Junior Member

    I am a Junior Member not a Yacht Designer. I also like Buehlers designs, but after reading about the Idlewild I think if I ever get the cash and ambition to build one I will stick to steel. Still Kelp is considering aluminum so I thought he would be very interested in the Idlewild even though the size and weight are quite different from his requirements.
     
  6. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

  7. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    marshmat Senior Member

    I tend to concur with Tad.... this doesn't look like a design that would benefit from the weight savings.
    Perhaps so, but from what I've read of Buehler's articles and books, his construction techniques seem to match pretty well with his designs- why change? Plywood's a great material, extremely hard to beat for structural efficiency, cost, and ease of use.
    Downsides? Well, they do look a bit chunky by yacht standards, but I kind of like the commercial look. Some reviewers apparently find the concept a bit crude, but I suspect many such critics have become rather accustomed to the expensive, leather-and-exotic-wood interiors and rakish "Euro" styling of the yachts that are responsible for their publications' ad revenue. Tad's point about power requirements is worth noting; I'd also note that such boats are likely more suited to CPP systems than to fixed props, especially if you're going to vary your cruising speed.
     
  8. Speedy3
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Speedy3 New Member

    Idle wild is a good case study for the point Tad and Marshmat raise. It was a one off design where the requirements were to be able to travel through the rivers of Canada (shallow draft), portage from one river to another,yet be able to navigate the northwest passage west to Alaska then east around the world with a 55hp engine. She did while setting a record for the longest passage by a small boat. Idle wild is a hybrid concept of a passage maker and river boat. That and the sparse interior is the reason it has not sold. If you want a passage maker why not use steel. George has steel plans for almost all his designs. If you are really Hooked on aluminum go to setsail.com and check out the PFB series. (if you have 2MM) anyway if you can't afford bigger than a 34 wood and steel are both cheaper and offer more displacement with less ballast.
     
  9. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Idle wild is a hybrid concept of a passage maker and river boat. That and the sparse interior is the reason it has not sold."

    PRICE is the reason it has not sold.

    Many cruisers do not need a forest of rare trees to turn the interior into a dark coffin like interior to enjoy voyaging.

    A half a million dollars for the boat is simply unrealistic , and it will stay For Sale another decade, unless the value of the dollar is reduced by 4/5ths.

    FF
     
  10. cthippo
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    cthippo Senior Member

    It would be like trying to sell the Rutan Voyager (first aircraft to circle the globe non-stop). Both are one-off designs optimized for one task and not well suited to anything else. I think the Voyager is in a museum somewhere and perhaps the Idlewild should be too.
     

  11. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Here's a rig I worked up for the 55 foot version of the DD for a client in CA. His boat is about finished and should be sailing soon.
     

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