Did a dream got shattered?

Daniel!--thats the searaker--34 ft i think- and ferro-cement...thats a BIG 34!!!

 

You are right, but I love her.
And why not ferro cement if well done? after all its a good solution for very heavy boat. Costly (in man hour) but certainly worth it for these kind of vessel.
But I know I am off topic of the thread. It is by far not what Bertku want.
Daniel

 

Bert Its a good thing people like Ford- or Edison-or - the Wright Brothers "wasted thier money" on things like airplanes, light bulbs, the motor car- etc etc... Bert in the end you will find a way! do not get discouraged.

also here is one possible way to keep your batteries in place "if" you roll...

 

Daniel-- yes its a great boat! i have Hartleys book...
sorry Bert-just enjoyed seeing that design up here...

 

Hi Dennis,

I will, but I am on the way to Port Elisabeth in a rush.

 

I love that one also. I am broad minded, while I am off driving to Port Elisabeth ( 360 Kilometers), you just chat. Any topic, as long you at the end come back to the orginal topic when I am back. I will have some time to think about it what my next move will be.
Bert

 

Hi Dennis,

Here is the list and the specs for the boat I like to build.
1 Must be able to be towed by either a X-Trail (Nissan) , 4x4 Sportage KIA or by the 2.8TDi Colt
2 Must be able to be towed and turned 180 degrees within a circle of 14 meters
3 Must be on a trailer with 2 large wheels only, to enable to be towed out of the front gate
4 Should be a sailing yacht, converted to electrical, but should my future sun in laws like to sail, they should be able to modify it back at minimal cost.
5 Wood with a layer of glass fibre
6 Should be not shorter than 7 meter or longer than 8 meters
7 Boat must have railing all around
8 Must have a lifted up rudder, which in an emergency can be lowered.
9 It would be nice to have a motor and propeller in this rudder, but I see it as a gimmick. When will there be a need for the above, I cannot see it happen, fog, no sun, no wind and batteries flat
10 Must have a small storm jib good enough to make the boat manageable
11 2 electro motors of 12,5 Kw peak if required for short time, but 2 Kw at cruising
12 Motors must be able to be reversed with full power
13 No rudders in the keels
14 Twin blade propellors
15 Must be able to carry 8 m2 , 18% monocrystaline solar panels
16 If rolled, must turn back
17 Must not be able to sink
18 Comfortable for sleeping for 2 people
19 Total crew 2 people with maybe up to 2 guest (slower speed and not stay over)
20 To be used for short coastal trips, up to 20 – 30 km away for watching the whales giving birth and the dolphins at a speed of 6 – 7 Nm/hr
21 Must be a displacement hull
22 Must have a 1 – 2 Kw wind generator
23 Must have twin keels for 2 motors/propellers to be mounted in
24 Must have NiMH battery pipe system horizontal pipes 20 batteries per pipe x 108 pipes
25 Each battery must be at least 10 Amperehour total voltage 48 Volt
26 Each series or 40 batteries must be separated with 25Ampere shottkey diodes
27 48 Volt Battery system must be fused.
28 Each electro motor circuit must be totally separated
29 The motors should be cooled in transformer oil and heat transferred to the seawater
30 The cable system should consist of only plus and minus in a round trip mode
31 Each light, motorcontrol etc, will have unit connected to this 2 wire system with a radio receiver with failsafe 4 code system.
32 Each unit shall only react after 3 of the 4 x 32 bit code with an interval of 100mSecond between the codes is correctly received. i.e. 32 bit code 100mS pause 32 bit code – 100mS pause – 32bit code – 100mS pause 32 code.
33 Any 3 out of the 4 correctly received will engage the item, lights, horn, etc..
34 Overriding emergency stop, via wire can system (same 32 bit code)
35 All movement functions from a remote hand control, included horn
36 All movements functions from a seated captains post.
37 On board 220 Volt/380 Volt charger with multiple constant current chargers
38 Initial 2 x 200 batteries for trial run in harbour and bay during blue water conditions
39 All 5 sea mile off shore safety equipment on board
40 Wood from light French plywood and treated Japanese Cedar wood.

Bert

 

Bert, how much of that list are you willing to give up? Especially those way oversize motors.

 

HI Pierre, Sorry for respondiing late, had some computer glitches. The 12,5 Kw motors are running on 72 Volt. My Voltage is only max 48 Volt and dus the power will not be more than 5 - 6 Kw. I had a long discussion with my wife and have in principle decided to look again at the Fisherman 18 and see whether we cannot come up with a good cabin.

Thanks Pierre for the help. What idea's did you have for me?
Bert

 

I am going in a territory were I know nothing about.
A friend of mine told me that hydrogene will be the answer.
Hydrogene can be put as a fuel in a normal engine, providing the valves will be repalced by stainless steel valves due to corrosion of hydrogene.
He told me that the hydrogene generator is simple to built.
Any thought about that?
Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

CDK also thinks that the future lies with Hydrogen. However, were the hick can I get hydrogen here , way from the very large cities and supply chains. At least electrics/electronics I understand. Also hopefuly solar and windenergy is still free of charge . If I go for hydrogen, I will have more power, but I am in de hands of the big boys again. Strikes (we had a few last couple of weeks) , price increases whenever the big boys feel like it. But you are right it is certainly a good proposition. The few million pumps in the world could be converted and off we go with hydrogen in our cars. Good point.
Bert

 

Hydrogen is an energy storage, or energy vector, not really a fuel. In other words, you need to synthesize it out of water, from hydrocarbons or from some other material which contains it. It is a process which requires energy input, and the energy stored available from 1 cu.m of H2 is (obviously) less then the energy used to produce that H2.

The main problems related to the use of hydrogen are:
1) the said production efficiency,
2) it's molecules are very small, so tend to escape easily into the atmosphere,
3) it cannot be liquified at temperaures above -240 °C,
4) it is very, very inflamable.
The second point means that particular care must be taken in design and construction of all the machinery intended to use hydrogen, in order to prevent leaks.
The third point means that it has to be stored as a pressurized gas, not as a liquid, thus diminishing the energy density of hydrogen storage tanks (means big and heavy tanks, when compared to liquid fuel tanks).
The fourth point is related to the second one, and is clearly a safety problem.

The most inviting part regarding the use of hydrogen as energy vector is that the combustion of H2 with air generates only water and energy, no greenhouse gases (well, maybe a small amount of NOx due to combustion temperature - like any practical fuel does), nor other types of pollutants.
Also, virtually anyone can produce hydrogen with solar energy. The conversion efficiency is still low, but it can be done.

If we manage to resolve the above mentioned problems (and I am confident we will, if the real big energy emergency hits us in the head), H2 could indeed become the energy storage of the future, particularily when low-temperature fuel cells become more efficient and durable.

 

I had published a research paper on the hydrogen production. For that I checked thoroughly about the possibilities of replacing hydrocarbon fuels with the hydrogen. It was surprising to find out that the energy coefficient of hydrogen is very high. The huge initial cost for the production unit is there, but hydrogen fuel will highly reduce green house effect. It was interesting to see EU started using Fuel cell technology with Hydrides.
But there is a huge problem so-called handling of the fuel. The steel pipes of higher thickness has to be used. The phenomena of STATIC CHARGE is what the main problem is. It is the tendency of Hydrogen to collect electrons from the pipe walls. As the hydrogen reaches from one end to the other, it accumulates large quantity of electrons. A small spark or a even a temperature variation will account to explosion. BUMMM.. So, you need to be sure of hydrogen, and further huge studies must be done before it is used domestically. Of course metal hydrides are stable, but the listed efficiency will have to a bit compromised with.
I totally agree with the huge pressurized tanks for the storage of hydrogen, as the same was my idea to be incorporated. I abandoned the paper, because the risk involved is huge, so is the cost of research.(it was self funded).
But Daiquiri wouldnt that be better to rely on offshore wind mills than on solar panels for the conversions? It will give more efficiency as studies say.Ocean will provide abundant raw material(water for electrolysis)

 

And please let me ask, when, how and why could this propell your boat at a decent speed?

It is ALL just premature phantasies, do´nt you get that?

NO,

I have no intention to insult you.

No intention to destroy your dreams.

I am NOT the one who "shattered the dreams" as your thread was named.

But when will you wake up and grasp, that it is not possible what you are planning?

You "stay in the bay" while the sufficient battery packs are developed?

But first you buy the insufficient to go out to the bay?

You redesign (with or without the assistance of the pro´s here) a boat which by no means can bear the burden of a complete set of "alternative" power supply, be it PV or wind , or what so ever on the market (I include the unaffordable gimmicks).
Then, quite late, you comprehend that a backup IC system might be necessary.
And the, now overly burdensome, weight of this system is what?

Bert
your dream will not come true! Get that!

You might think I am a ******* and not the one to assist you. Right. I am a ******* (at least when you ask my competitors), but I am not against your plans! They are just not in balance with todays technology. And for sure not in line with a homebuilt.
You would ruin all your entire life, would you stubbornly follow these plans.
Please believe me.
We have seen many of such tasks over the decades, yet we have to see one coming out to success.

Go and build a boat!
Do it to a proven and affordable plan!
Do it to the method required and recommended!
Do it without the NEED to improve anything!
And do it soon!
You otherwise will be caught in your own inability to see your restrictions!

My best regards
Richard
__________________
Fortior est qui se quam qui fortissima vincit Moenia.


Moderator, would it be possible to move this complimentary information from Apex1 to the "Did a dream got shattered" thread. This is "battery en new battery technology" not the right place. Many thanks.

 

I was not planning to respond to this person. But maybe I can have him to stop placing unpleasant reply's to various threads, not just to those ones of mine but also to others.

First at all, you have no idea what my capabilities are. Nor my capabilities to listen to people and to make adjustments.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you, there are no ready avialable plans for seagoing electric boats, thus we have to experiment.

Maybe if you read the various threads again, you will see that I found a militair 10Amperhour NiMH "D" type batteries. and can handle 10x "C" If you don't understand what that means, I gladly will explain.

If you would have calculated the number of batteries at the end, you will find 25 Kwh in power. Oh by the way, I did buy plans. The designer, stated 10hp required. Maybe I can translate that for you as 7,5 Kw. With two powerfull motors at 3- 4 Kw each, it would exceed the criteria. The motors with proper cooling could do 6 KW, i.e. 12 Kw. O.K. crasped?

O.K. now you find a loophole. Weight !! hallalujah. Yes 25Kwh is 466 Kg of weight. But 3 years ago the type "D" batteries had only 5 Amperehours. Today they have managed allready 10 Amperehour.

In 3 years time I hope to have them 12 or even 15 Amperehour. Why should I buy today all the batteries already?? grasped?

Why can a submarine travel 480 Km under the sea with type "D" batteries and I cannot travel 20 - 30 km along the coast. No, I don't want to travel all the time at top speed like you want me to do.

Oh by the way, weight. The designer has made provision for 400kg of dieselpower + the weight of the fuel is way above the 466kg. The weight in pipes are much better distributed. grasped?

I have listened to TOM and indeed I could try to correct the inbalance at 13% , but it would be too much modifications. However I could have the plans reduced by 7 % and nobody, nobody not even you can argue that that cannot be corrected. I bought and excellent book, "Ship stability" by 4 Hollanders. Maybe you should study first this book, before writing the previous nonsense.
It is avialable from www.dokmar.com

Would you mind to make some positive contributions, instead of the inaccurate junk you are writing. You may impress a few other readers, but you are at no help to me.
Bert