Design possibilities of a modular vehicle

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by vapera, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Well, I think I've got a basic idea about how your paddling invention works. So, say no more. ;)

    As about this:
    You must be talking about very high speeds, if that kind of instability is to happen. What speeds do you expect to reach with a motorized version?
     
  2. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    It depends on the power of the engine (and power of the pocket;)), but I'm thinking in a model with 120/140 km/h, it's mass center and gravity center are lower than a jetski, for example, and the top speed might be higher than in a jetski, with good stability and manouverability (damper are necessary in the pivoted system). The first model that (with spoiler) you saw has a hull not exactly to this speed, it needs a more acute "V" angle. But the design will not change to much, in the software that I used (www.blender3d.org)it is easier to make this change fast.

    You can develop a lot of models, fell free to develop your design, the patent protection(royalties) I have only in brazil, in every other countries it is public domain, it's absolutely free.
     

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  3. NoEyeDeer
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    NoEyeDeer Senior Member

    That last example is basically a surf ski, except that I don't think it would be as efficient as conventional surf skis. The triangular sections have more wetted surface for a given displacement, compared to the elliptical sections of a standard ski. The break between the pods adds yet more wetted surface (yes that does make sense if you look at the picture closely and think about it). The use of two shorter hulls is (IMHO) not likely to reduce wave drag compared to one longer hull. I think it would be better to use a more conventional hull that split in half for storage and trailering, like the way a standard rowing eight is made.

    Also, I have to say that the thought of driving an articulated jet ski at 140 k's would probably make actuaries lose sleep.
     
  4. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    That is true, I didn't know surfski, now I know!!!
    As I already said, this conception, compared to usual models, is a little bit less efficient, and the real advantage, is its portability and multiple possibilities of use.


    The triangular section is better to "cut" the waves and keep the direction, on the other hand it has a bigger wetted surface. In a white water or surf boat an elliptical section is better because it slides, and with a triangular section the boat would overturn in a wave. In all the cases, the design of section, elliptical, triangular or square (big ships) can variate a lot, in a hybrid watercraft it's important to equationate what you prefer, what best performance you want. You want a best performance in a ocean kayak modality? You want a best performance in pedal boat? You want...?
    So, this is an equation that is impossible to please all, the way is to make a hybrid that combines all possible characteristics. Maybe here, in this rowboat topic, the best is the standard, elliptic with raised sidewalls and really narrow. It's really difficult, so as I said every person is free to develop any model, there is no legal patent problem. Wetted surface is certainly bigger, but in moviment it becomea equal to a conventional, in a certain speed. I already explained about it.


    For sure, if you have a bigger wetted surface, it is impossible! I already explained this too.

    It depends on what you prefer, for a rowboat competitor, you're right, but for a weekend user, I don't think so, because eventually it is better to have 3 boats in 1 than only 1. The difference in performance is less than 5%, in extreme situations (the largest space between hulls).

    It is not a jet ski, it has no similarity with a jet ski, it has a lower mass and gravity center and it has two modules. I said this model has a damper in the pivoting system, and a front engine, so it's stable, it's shorter and has more aerodynamics than a jet ski, and you sit in it like you sit in a competition car (open-wheel) unlike the jet ski, where you sit like as if you were on a motorcycle, much more dangerous. Besides, a jet ski reaches the same speed, 140 km/h. Finally, when you are in a sport race, the risk is essential, it is probably what people are looking for. And I believe that there are differents actuaries rules to differents sports.
    In my opinion, I prefer 140 km/h in my invention than in a jet ski.


    I apologize to all:(, but my first post was based in a new conception of rowboat and a different traction system. Maybe I mixed it with my trading interests, so I'm stoping here everything related to my invention that has no link with rowboats. The last image I post I tried to bring the subject back to rowboats.
     
  5. Raggi_Thor
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    Raggi_Thor Nav.arch/Designer/Builder

    It's interesting, no problem, but I can't see how two shorter hulls can be faster than one longer hull.
     
  6. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    I never said this. What I said is this is a new proposal, that has advantanges like portability, maneuverability, multipurpose and personal and multiuser, to become multiuser it's only necessary to attach more modules.
    This watercraft works like a "Lego". You can have a lot of boats in one.
     
  7. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    Since my first thread I'm trying to discuss only technical questions, only paradigmas of the nautical world, only about breaking dogmas that, in my opinion, stagnates the nautical science. Arrogant lecturers that always gain with this obsolet technology (like scientists that every year create a new laws about the same things, that are sustained by the industry that doesn't want evolution, because the evolution costs make their technology obsolet) start to offend myself and my ideas. These ideas that I tried to explain are beneficial to the nautical world. In my last posts in the thread created by nordvindcrew I started to discuss about open ocean rowboats.
    In situation with waves, wind variation and variated conditions in all instances an invention that I developed some times works better than with a conventional hull, which in waves the vertical movement stops the horizontal movement of boat. On the other hand, a segmented hull (multi-modular) works much better because the space between hulls difficults the wave to raise the hull, the wave passes between the hulls. In certain cases, with high and narrow waves (with lower water volume), for instance, a segmented hull loses this advantage, because it will perforate at least twice (if there are two modules) or more (if there are more modules), while the continuous hull perforates the wave only once and loses less speed. This problem is possible to be solved with a segmented hull, because the space between the hulls can be graduated. Unfortunetly a strange behaviour (or what else) of arrogant lecturers, that use terms like "mess" and "nonsense" or to define others work, that is not polite, made me run out of the original scope of the thread, and ended "messing" the thread, it was my fault. I tried to return to the real topic, but lots of questions about the invention increased the mess, and Ancientkayaker, that had already talked about the idea of openning another thread asked me to create another thread for a second time, he was right. So I'm now starting this thread to discuss the advantages of a segmented hull rowboat in open ocean, and everyone is invited to discuss this matter here. Please don't use negative terms like mess, nonsense or "begging for money ( sounds like a scam to me )" to define me,my invention or someone else's opinion or work, difference of opinion can be expressed in a polite, rudeless and arrogantless way, and certainly we can have a proficuos thread here.
    It would be nice if some lecturers understood that their knowledge is strict to what they study, because the academic way (I know too much about this!) compartments science, and they have difficulty to open their horizons.
    The holistic knowledge is the real knowledge, to understand the state of art of the knowledge one first needs to brake paradigms and dogmas! To understand what I'm saying, some time ago it was common to hear physicians recommending drinking milk to reduce stomach burning, while chemistry said "acid with acid becomes base". The medicine knowledge was wrong, but it was the accepted idea then, and it cost a lot to many people that had a stomach disease, this kind of mistake made and makes life worst!!! To break dogmas and paradigms is what I'm trying to do here.
    Thank you to all.
     

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  8. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Cool...keep up the good work ! The best things always come from inquiring minds.
    And don't get to sensitive about poor forum behavior....all forums are the same...a small group jumping up and down trying to win the beauty contest.
     
  9. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Always a good start to ask critical voices to stay out.

    Even better to insult science and industry right from the start (especially the latter), that helps otherwise willing contributors to focus on their business instead of yours.

    Oh and congratulations, that poster above is the right supporter, jumping up and down to get any attention.

    Good luck anyway.........

    Richard
     
  10. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    How about showing few pics from below the waterline?
     
  11. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    You are right, Thank you.
    I didn't offend industry...If all the industries are good, prove it. Here you will not see any offence from me, fell free to post your opinion.
    By the way, do you have any good idea to improve the nautical market?
    An intelligent industrial doesn't fell offended by me, probably he/she knows clearly what I'm talking about.
    It's important to understand that to know my invention you need to read about it. I suggest you to see the movies and page below, and finally put your opinion.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ63sua33-0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ith5fYgLRA&feature=related
    http://aquaticvehicle.webng.com
     
  12. HJS
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    HJS Member

    Oops

    Didn't think about it

    js
     

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  13. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    Daiquiri, I can't show this, because it's my ace in the hole!!!
    But I can give you a clue, very little of what we studied about hulls works in this situation, imagine ducks in line swimming, imagine the behavior of the water, I'm sure you will solve the riddle!!:p:
    One suggestion, paddle in a surfboard behind another surfboard (void) paddler.
    Good paddling:D
     
  14. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    Imagine a hull made of paper, probably it will break easily.
    Now, imagine beam(s) made of titanium, probably it will never break, perhaps in the end of the civilization it will stay alive.
    Don't use the NLP, or probably the image you posted here will happen to YOU!!:D:D:D
    You have an interesting site.
    I liked water taxi.
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I call that offensive:
    And I do not have any opinion about your invention, I am not in that market of small craft.
     
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