Design competition

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by dskira, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. boat fan
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    boat fan Senior Member

    One can only imagine what " nuggets " tom.

    I always wonder about the stuff NOT shown....

    Yes ....all the more reason for them to publish more of the entries than they do . Alas, we do not live in a perfect world.
  2. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Let's not forget, this is a two way street - one only enters a comp in the hope of getting a design published. If the mag gets to sell a few extra copies as a result, who are we to complain?

    I was only aware of the delay for the PMM comp as a result of emailing and asking what was happening... hopefully they will announce winners...

    I also agree that it would be good if they published even small pieces on all the entries. Obviously they have space constraints, but most these days have websites... perhaps a link to a results page....
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Tom, come on, you're still just pissed over the butcher job they did on your last name . . . Though the comment about your building skills should be some reassurance they at least liked you.
  4. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Well, who are those judging? Are these "judges" well respected and eminent designers/builders etc, in the field of the subject of the competition? Are they poeple that one would consider 'peers'?

    Unless the Judges are well respected and well known, i cannot see any reason to feel "flattered" for winning, other than the publicity for winning and the recognition that comes with it, via the magazine.

    Because if the judges are not true equals, or better, what difference does it matter what they say? It would be no different to this forum. Everyone has a view...some from a practical point of view, some from technical point of view and some from a "i think..." point of view, because they have no other frame of reference.

    Sure, it is nice to know if others appreciate your work, but, is this a subjective view or objective view of your work, and by whom, i.e. is there a raison d'eter...????

    Ergo, i ahve to agree with Daniel on this.

    I subscribe to many publications. Including the ones from my own professional institutions have articles which have no technical merit. I queried the editor of one, why allow such woolly verbose non-technical articles and provide them with a sales pitch without an editorial comment. Why not be more like "Nature" or "The Lancet" etc. Simple reply...only interested in revenue of the magazine, the bottom line! Giving their technical editorial comment is not conductive to this...the technical aspects are dealt with by the conferences, for peer review articles papers...ugh!

    So i suspect these magazine are no different.
  5. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    :D :D Paul,

    Hey, they got four letters correct out of seven. That is over 50%. I should be happy:rolleyes: :rolleyes: At least PBB got it right in the latest issue.

    I don't know why we should be upset that a magazine is interested in their bottom line. Everybody is not as altruistic as us here.LOL We can get PBB for free and it is surely one of the best magazines that grace my mailbox.
  6. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    I agree that PBB seems fair with organization of contest. From them, I even got a letter saying 'thank You' and inviting to join next competition. Good attitude, this is how it should be.
  7. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    I believe that there should be a kind of code of ethics for organizers with such event, namely:
    - all entries (not only selected ones) shoud be presented on the web;
    - the designers should submit technical details/calculations for their concepts, to avoid unrealistic stuff considered for competition;
    - proper notification system for participants;
    - procedures for cancellations and changes;
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  8. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I agree. Well said Alik.
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The sponsors version of reality frequently slants the design away from real progress.

    Specifically the new PBB weight limits do nothing for the boats function, yet rule out a good efficient diesel .

    Good performance and low fuel consumption requires an efficient power source , why not let the boats performance be the issue , not the sponsors pre-concieved notions of what they want?

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  10. yipster
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    yipster designer

    maybe its an idea to have a clean say design invention thread here?
    in the past some good thoughts past the forum only to disapear in oblivion
    IMHO this was for example a good one on mast raising
  11. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    I generally agree with your take, Ad, BUT.... I happen to think it is important to have at least one, non-pro in the field, as a part of a judging scenario. If selected with care, this person can bring a fresh set of senses to the process that can be dulled with the guys who are pros and see this type of work, day in and day out.

    Not all design work is done to satisfy professionals in the field. From my perspective, virtually none of it is for folks in the business. Some of the guys posting on this thread have made very poignant comments that design work is all about satisfying the client's stated desires and not what the designer might wish to present. A lot of clients have nothing to do with a professional level knowledge base in any of the connected fields of boat design. Yet, here we are, insisting that it be a professional peer group who would serve to review the work in a submittal style design contest.

    I think that leaves out one very important segment of what our work is about in the first place. That would be the end user who would be the commissioning party.
  12. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Your point is powerful, Fred. I suppose, though, while thinking of the dilemma for the magazine and the judges, that there have to be a collection of limits to the design format, in order to dial it in to some manageable bag of controlled chaos.

    There were all kinds of limits to the scope that I would have preferred didn't exist, but it was what it was. One can choose to take a pass, or work within the rules.

    They are presently looking at a different set of criteria that allows for a bit more wiggle room, so we'll see how that goes. The publisher, Carl Cramer, is a very sharp guy and he's not going to want to leave too many possible good things out of the mix, if he can help it. I also suspect that this design contest format is going to continue. It allows a really fertile set of ideas to be shared around the industry and that alone will further stimulate other design concepts. All of it, hopefully, will help to soft-prod the boating trade and excite the buying public.
  13. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    I have another question related to competitions organized by magazines - it puzzled me ever since I saw that PBB competition:
    As far as you guys know, how many winner designs have actually arrived to the production line?
    Or do you see it as just a mean for getting more visibility, with no particular expectations when it comes to finding someone who will transform the winning design into a real boat?
  14. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    To make this statement/assumption, one must understand their MO for such to begin with, ie why they would want someone other than a "professional". What would they 'bring' to the party....non of this has been established, other than everyone's supposition. This requires clearly defined objectives and outcomes, of the magazine!

    You're assuming design is to satisfy other it is not. What reason would would the designer have to satisfy other professionals, none.

    That's my point. The client. Not the designer, not the magazine, the client.

    Ergo, what is the purpose of the competition? Marketing!

  15. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    I agree with you in principle Fred, but the contest sponsors must have some limits in order to make the task reasonable. Allowing any kind of power plant deviates from the intent to look at design of the boats. Having separate sections for inboards and outboards like they did for wood and other materials might make that more doable. In general, I'd prefer fewer constraints and let the entrants decide how they will meet the main objectives.

    How many would buy a separate magazine issue that focused only on all the entries? I spoke to Carl about that and he seemed receptive but, in the end, it has to be economically viable.
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