design a (25-27m) simple classic (sailboat-semiTrawler) in modern wood/epoxy system

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by aymanisamana, May 12, 2019.

  1. aymanisamana
    Joined: Dec 2011
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    aymanisamana Junior Member

    Hi,
    I want to design a (25-27m) simple classic (sailboat-semiTrawler) in modern wood/epoxy system.

    I know most details, shape and specifications; I have a plan!

    Can any anyone recommend few designers please? Or could any naval architecture in wooden sailboats help me!
    I am planning to build it with boat builder’s team in Egypt with my supervision. Also, you could advice were I could build it.

    Many thanks,
    Ayman
     
  2. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    how about some pics of what you got so far?
     
  3. aymanisamana
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    aymanisamana Junior Member

    The white boat is a 24m built 1960 beam 6m Draft 2.2m & Fuel4000L

    The black boat is 26m steel made by G. Sutton 1986 which I like the hull style with 30000 L

    So as a start, I want to make a bigger wooden boat like the 1stone but with a hull similar to the black trawler and so I will have more fuel tanks, higher room ceiling , shallow keel with perhaps inner ballast like the backbones, and very strong wooden hull and yet light like following pic of a 35 m yacht

    This boat will be for my own use, a home but also could be used as charter and sometimes I would fish with light nets using poles and much more..
     

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  4. aymanisamana
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    aymanisamana Junior Member

    This is a section sample from a 35m yacht but I will add some fabrics to make it strong as bulletproofed
     

    Attached Files:

  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    That appears to have a thick laminate on it. Remember that heavier does not mean stronger. Also, what method of construction is the egyptian team familiar with?
     
  6. aymanisamana
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    aymanisamana Junior Member

    This part of a yacht from a factory in turkey that builds 35m-50m only and they were building 4-5 at a time. Also most of the boats are for customers in the US.

    For Egypt, they build in all methods, like the west but much cheaper than anyplace. Diesel is USD33 cents/L!
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  7. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I understand that they built in all kinds of methods throughout the country. However, what methods is your team familiar with and equipped to build?
     
  8. aymanisamana
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    aymanisamana Junior Member

    They aren’t my team, but I will create them to save or use local builders.
     
  9. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    The tought of organizing such a build yourself especially in a country like Egypt is borderline crazy. Consider that everything that goes into the boat must be imported. I think baksheesh trippels by default for someone from the Gulf area, then doubles again for boat related items. Security will also cost you trough the nose, as will other things.
    Just find a boatyard that has done this before and negotiate your price with them. You simply can not match their price by doing it yourself. Maybe if you take the build crew to Bahrain, a big maybe even then.

    As for the actual design, any boatyard capable of building such a boat has at least one design office with wich they collaborate in addition to their own NA's. If you want the boat to also sail (I mean actually moving the boat with windpower alone, without engines) I would recomend using a design office with a proven record in big sailing boats. I suspect you will have to use a european or american house for that.
     
  10. aymanisamana
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    aymanisamana Junior Member

    Thank you so much Rumars
    I am looking around with designers both EU and N. America.
    Also, do you recommend any area in EU to build such boat with affordable price!
     
  11. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Moneywise the boat divides into three big things, hull construction, systems, interior. Hull is a function of the yards experience with the materials and technique.
    Systems needs a specialized workforce (mechanics, electricians, riggers, etc.).
    Interior is a function of your desire, the more manual labour (carvings, veneering, upholstery etc.) the more expensive it becomes.
    There is a reason lot of superyachts are buildt in Turkey. Work is cheap, available materials (EU customs union plus they make a lot themselfs) and they have the skills. The only place Egypt wins is where lots of high skill manual labour is required like interiors.
    The fact is if you want quality you have to pay for it. This will not be a cheap boat, so what is affordable for you and where are you prepared to make compromises? Are you marrried to wood/epoxy? New engines or rebuildt ones? How about sails and rigging? High tech carbon and italian hardware or wood mast with galvanized everything? This are actually all things to discuss with your NA's and will affect where you build. Or you go the other way around an design the boat to what the yard can actually produce. Often a hull is buildt in one yard then it is moved to another yard for completion (under own power or towed).
     
  12. aymanisamana
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    aymanisamana Junior Member

    Thank you very much
    I started yesterday after your message checking the Turkish medium builders and compare prices; Also, I will delegate the design to them for saving.
    Will have very basic inner (solid wood too) build by same boat builder (as part of the structure) to save cost and weight. As for masts, fittings (never carbon); they have factories for it next to the yacht factories as I visited few free zone in the south before.
    Do you recommend any Turkish builders? Did you live in turkey before! I remember a German boat builder who had a factory in the south and builds a motor yacht to carry Porsche car in the boat!
    Best Regards,
    Ayman
     
  13. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Sorry I can not give recommendations for specific yards, I am not in the business. A good yard can show you what they buildt before regardless where it is, Egypt or Turkey.
    Good luck with your design and keep us updated.
     
  14. aymanisamana
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    aymanisamana Junior Member

    I received quotations from both Turkish and Egyptian boat builders ranging from 400k-2500k $
    But the point is: few gave the option to choose between Oak, Acajou mahagony, Sapelli , Mulberry wood, Wood of camphor, birch wood, All with West system epoxy.

    So, What do you think about these types of wood, as for strength and long lasting. The last 3 are the cheapest!

    Many thanks
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019 at 2:26 PM

  15. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Oak is not an epoxy friendly wood, while it can be used it's not first choice. Acajou is french for mahagony, the question is what exactly is offered, you need the latin name of the wood, or at least the country of origin since there are many different things sold under that name. True mahagony is very good wood with or without epoxy but very expensive. Sapelli goes well with epoxy, it's a mahagony substitute, still expensive but not like true mahagony. Mulberry and camphor are not used much in the west right now, altough they are both traditional boat building woods. I don't know about mulberry and epoxy, I hear camphor glues ok. Where does it come from? Birch would need to be totally encapsulated for boat use it rots very easy so it's better avoided. I am surprised the turks did not offer you sweet chestnut (kestane) as an option, they used to use it a lot. Did the egyptians offer you mulberry and camphor?
    West epoxy is very good but I would have also expected other brands.
    What construction tehniques did they offer exactly and what wood combinations? Thin veneer cold molded, strip plank + veneer, double planking, etc. Glued only or additional screws or nails?
    Are the prices quoted for the hull alone or fully equipped ready to sail?
     
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