deep sea mooring

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by exp30002, Mar 16, 2018.

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  1. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    Hi chinaseepirate;

    Newport Beach, Ca is where the rich and beautiful people live.
    It gives a new meaning to the word 'decadence'. So, not working class.

    But, anyways, I guess that seamount is nicknamed locally 'the 14 mile bank'.
    Lots of people go there to fish.
     
  2. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    "upon further investigation...if foreign "friends" were allowed to visit "Tire Island" it should be allowed"

    The word "allowed" is not really the right one in sovereign territory.
    It is more just "no jurisdiction".
     
  3. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

  4. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    Aside from all the guesswork on what the authorities can or can't do, (they can, they have and they will) here's two more hurdles....

    [​IMG]

    Even after securing all the outside loops together, if you cut one on the inside, the whole thing unravels.

    But even more of a problem is that tires don't float, they sink.

    ?


    .
     
  5. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 3,817
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    [​IMG]
     
  6. chinaseapirate

    chinaseapirate Previous Member

    I would have to go with a tentative yes on what they can and can't do. Certainly (direct experience) they will break their own written laws to defeat "loopholes", but will they attack attack a private yacht, licensed and registered with approval of authorities, just because of an unconventional hull material and/or "anchors"? In today's instantly available youtube news society how do they defend their action other than making clear to everyone what a totalitarian form of government it has become?

    A big fat no on unraveling. Theoretically possible but the sea will not find a way on this one. There are no forces to pull each separate link apart much less anything imaginable other than a nuclear sub that could rip a tire apart in the first place- maybe a half dozen or so then it is stuck in a net. Same with ship's prop.

    At an individual tire level it might take $1 apiece to seal it with marine shrink wrap. down to about 50 cents each in "rolls" of 50. make them into rolls of 84 - about 57 feet long- max trailer length strap them with $5 of polyester strap, wrap them individually with $30 of cheaper plastic wrap form them into a seven strand "tire hulls 7 feet by 57 feet, and wrap that with 2mm EPDM "rubber"- $200. make two of these, and and 30 more single strand rolls 42 tires long,strap and wrap it, take it ALL to a launch ramp with plenty of 3/16" nylon, 1/4 ext ply, a few solar panels, water distillation unit, old used "bigfoot" outboard, and tie yourself together a housecat. 57 x 24. can carry 100,000 lbs (5,000 tires above water or 15,000 tires "below water". Total cost about the price you made collecting the 2700 or so tires- $2700.00. better start out with a 5hsp auxillary and register it as a sail boat - $26.00/yr.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
  7. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    In general, you can't wrap each tire tread in shrink wrap and expect it to be waterproof or last more than a short time. It's just thin sheet plastic. In specific, if you did wrap each tire tread with shrink wrap, you couldn't weave them. They have to pass through each other.

    If you can't permanently trap enough air in each tread for buoyancy, they sink.

    If one of those inner loops was broke, it wouldn't take much wave action at all and the mat would come all apart. If one loop breaks, that releases two more (without them even having to break) which then release four more which then release eight more etc.

    Tires aren't indestructible, they sun check and sort of dry rot for one thing. The highways are littered with dead tires.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
  8. chinaseapirate

    chinaseapirate Previous Member

    You got to go back and reread OP's idea from start, sorry I didn't finish- added to it the last paragraph. more like put single tires in a sandwich bag between 2 sheets of 7mil "shrink wrap" and heat seam the edges. basically same stuff inflatable boats are made out of flexible PVC. 10 cents /ft2 whith marine lable and 6 cents without it. When you line them all up and squeeze the together a bit with heavy duty polyester strapping lengthwise inside and outside you have a "tube" however long you want it. cheaper to wrap. If this some sort major impediment for boat regulators that it "might" sink...you could include some positive flotation capped plastic bottles within each tire few a few pennies more... In fact i found out that the tire collectors pay up to 1.25/ tire at the "recyclers"...Divert this stream and youdon't even have to collect them - you get paid for them to be brought to you about a dollar each. the collecters must get $2-3 dollars each to haul them off since they pay the actual disposal fee.
     
  9. chinaseapirate

    chinaseapirate Previous Member

    No, I don't believe so. without looking at the picture I cant see them coming apart. If you cut a single tire tread...ok then what? Something has to pull it through three other tires to releas two other loops. That is some friction to overcome and there is nothing pulling on it...not wave drag , not the other tires, and no sea creatures to grip a tire and yank on it. both ends of the original broken tread are open to a space about 1/4 tire length. even cut its trapped place. Unless it pulls itself up over the adjacent tires and yanks itself through its two "attached" tires nothing else is loose. No one is saying what might happen in 100 years if left alone. This is a manned project with a flexible purpose. and EVEN if you are righ and I'm out to lunch for not seeing the flaw...it is easily corrected. just build it double ply and stitch that together every 50 tires or so. Since there is nothing pulling it apart in the first place that nothing cant possibly break a fixed connection. Within a couple of years the whole thing will be completely covered with "growth" anyway. A simple enough job to keep the anchor line floating and not pulling the "yacht" under. You don't any sort of "permit" to clean abalone and mussels off you sea anchor do you? or chase away (into the waiting arms of friendly "licensed fisherman") crabs, shrimps, octopus or other critters? There is no reason to want the tires to sink, so they won't.
     
  10. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    Hmmm. Well, maybe it will all look different tomorrow.
     
  11. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    Hi;

    Well, the whole thing is an idea. I work on it. One of the thing is " When I get to that bridge, I will cross it."
    By this, I mean, that the main hurdles are to be discovered. I would like to discover these hurdles by
    practical experience.

    Shrink wrap: could be done also.

    So, the strength of the tires:
    I found tires. I cut the tires. I found passenger vehicle tires and light truck tires.
    Those tires have no steel belt in the rim. The steel belt is only in the ring. It is easy to cut
    those rims off.

    I found, and I have 3 semi truck tires. These tires have steel mash all the way in the rims.
    I have tried using all my hand power tools to cut these rims off. I did cut some rims off. These tires are
    a beasts. Regular knife will only cut to the steel mash. Whatever cuts the rubber, will not cut
    the steel. The rubber can be cut only when the cut is pulled open. The steel mash prevents pulling
    the cut open.
    After cutting into the rubber, the rubber prevents the movement of the steel cutting
    blade. The two thing together; the steel mash embedded in the vulcanized rubber is a beast.

    All the tires have steel mash in the belt. To cut, or tear apart something like that requires a specialized,
    industrial, heavy duty equipment. Those equipments do exist and those are possible to purchase.
    The price is not prohibitive, and I have the funds. Right now, I would like to work on the easier side of
    the project. I would like to produce a demonstration model that is a full scale prototype of woven rings.

    Describing the full scale demonstration prototype is possible, but lengthy. Pictures would do a better job.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  12. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    On a large scale, in my opinion, cutting the tires will require the specialized, industrial
    heavy duty equipment. The with of the belts has to be controlled. This would be possible by
    cutting the belts, with steel mash in them, thinner, after the rims are cut off.
    I got this far ,with those tires on the picture, without the need to cut the steel mash.
    I think, I am not in a check-mate position yet, without the heavy-duty cutting equipment.
     
  13. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    The intended reuse of these tires would require much less strength then the original
    intended use. I think there is lots of strength still left in these tires.
    Dry rot: under water. Sun (UV) damage: under water (60 feet) not much sunlight left.
    Tire belt column would extend from seabed to 60 feet under surface.
    Fire hazard is minimal: under water use. I do not think sharks could bite through these.
    The effect of wave action at 60' depth is much less than at surface.
    Nuclear submarines can be a problem.

    If unrevealing becomes a problem; there could be two wholes drilled in the belt about 4'' distance and the use of a
    zip-tie might be good. This can be done at certain distances.

    Buoyancy of tires: salt water specific gravity is 1.020 - 1.030 g/cm3
    tire specific gravity (with steel mash in) is 1.300 g/cm3
    So the tires are close to neutral buoyancy. A little bit of help in buoyancy will go a long way
    to alter and adjust the structure buoyancy to the desired state. It could be polyurethane foam.

    More pictures, when I get to "that bridge".
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  14. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    I think about the recycling fees to, like chinaseapirate. I do not know for sure yet, how the
    money flows. Right now, at the sale of a new tire, the recycling fee on that tire is $1.75.

    There are tire generators: I guess those are businesses that sell new tires, they put new tires
    on the wheels, and take the old tires off. (1st old tires off, 2nd new tires on -))

    There are the tire disposing facilities: these burn tires, such as a cement factory in California;
    or they just burn the tires with a controlled burn, away from population,
    there are tire crumb producers, and there are tire exporters. The exporters transport the tires outside the USA.
    And there might be more ...etc.

    There are the tire haulers: these people transport tires between the generators and the disposing facilities.

    Who gets, how much of the recycling fee is probably up to negotiations.
     

  15. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Shrink wrap will eventually fall off the tires. Dumping plastic, in any part of the ocean, is against the law.
     
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