Dealing with pirates

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by dave L, Nov 22, 2004.

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  1. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Not *******, as I am one of those "illigitimates" by birthright not actions - Loosers, degenerates, cretins, 'dead men walking' waste of space/air....
  2. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member


    Canada's gun registry , promised for 1 million, ended up costing 2 billion, probably make the Guiness record for the biggest cost over run in history.
    They registered thousands of guns with identical make model and serial number. The registry has been hacked over 250 times , giving organised crime a computerised list of every registered gun in Canada , where to find them and the details of the residents there, courtesy the Government of Canada. Some people were sent letters with" Firearms registry" clearly printed on the outside of the envelope, making them a target for gun thieves.
    Some people , just for the joke, registered all their guns, grease guns, caulking guns, staple guns , heat guns, glue guns, soldering guns , etc etc, and got federal licences for all of them.
    When guns didn't have a serial number the owners were sent paper peel and stick numbers to put on their oily guns.
    May of the licenses came with the wrong photo on them, so the gun registry responded by sending them out with no photo on them.
    Since the gun registry , gun crime has skyrocketed , and what was once considered a farm implement became a status symbol for punks, and the demand and price of stolen guns has skyrocketed.
    They have made things infinitely worse for Canadians.
    Homeless people have been freezing to death in the streets and spousal abuse victims have been turned away from shelters, with the full knowledge they will probably be killed by their abusers, for want of a tiny fraction the money sqaundered on the gun registry.Not a single crime has been solved by the gun registry.
    Knee jerk political reactions cost lives, far more lives than would ever be cost by honest gun owners and rural people.
  3. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    Brent, Same deal in Australia, not one single crime solved because of it, why, simple really, outlaws don't register their guns, they are outside the law, hence outlaws........but Mrs and Mr Doogooder see it different, if it only saves one life.....what a load of crap.
  4. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    Here/Here Summary execution has a place in the current world.
  5. safewalrus
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Totally, just get rid of the body.............and if you add a couple of 'do gooders' so much the better!
  6. harlemriverman
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    harlemriverman Senior Member

    "Canada's gun registry , promised for 1 million, ended up costing 2 billion, probably make the Guiness record for the biggest cost over run in history...."

    that one even has the "big dig" in boston beat, impressive. seems pirates and politicians have a lot in common.
  7. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    Canada's handgun registry has been in effect since 1934 , yet no one can point to a single crime that has been solved by the registry. We have some of the most severe handgun restrictions in the world, yet 95% of gun crime in Canada is by handguns. Vancouver is a wild west shootout daily these days. Britain has a similar experience. Shows how effective that approach is.
    The abolition of the long gun registry is coming up for debate in the Canadian house of commons April first.
  8. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Propitious? on "April Fools Day"?

    Boston, That is the conundrum, maybe size? above the size necessary for personal defence against wild animals - for you in America bears = shotgun? for us in Aus a .22 bolt action (rabbits/foxes/cats) all else are protected except water-buffalo, camels which were also introduced "vermin" - even the crocodile is protected :D:D:D:D - I really do not know....
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    it may be cliche but its true
    when you outlaw guns
    only outlaws will own them
  10. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    From the BBC website today.

    At last people are realising (what took so long?) theres no point trying to talk nicely to pirates.

    Page last Could 19th-Century plan stop piracy?

    International efforts to thwart Somali piracy would appear to be floundering. Perhaps words from the 19th Century could offer a solution, writes the BBC News website's world affairs correspondent Paul Reynolds.

    Palmerston did not hesitate to send in the gunboats

    If the navies of the world need some advice on ways to stop piracy off Somalia, they could look to Lord Palmerston, British Foreign Secretary in 1841.

    "Taking a wasps' nest... is more effective than catching the wasps one by one," he remarked.

    Palmerston, the great advocate of gunboat diplomacy, was speaking in support of a British naval officer, Joseph Denman.

    Denman had attacked and destroyed slave quarters on the West African coast and had been sued by the Spanish owners for damages.

    It was British policy to try to destroy the slave trade, but this sometimes ran into legal complications.

    The British attorney general, in a gem of delicate legal advice, declared the following year that he "cannot take it upon himself to advise... that the instructions to Her Majesty's naval officers are such as can with perfect legality be carried into execution...

    "[He] is of the opinion that the blockading of rivers, landing and destroying buildings and carrying off of persons held in slavery... cannot be considered as sanctioned by the law of nations."

    Denman, a hero of the anti-slave trade campaign, was eventually vindicated and the Royal Navy carried on with its anti-slavery operations.

    The legal system in Kenya cannot deal with suspected pirates
    James Walvin notes in his book Black Ivory: "Between 1820 and 1870 the Royal Navy seized almost 1,600 ships and freed 150,000 slaves."

    With Somali piracy still threatening shipping, it sounds as if modern navies need a few Captain Joseph Denmans, or the like-minded American, Commodore Stephen Decatur.

    Sent to attack the Barbary pirates off North Africa in 1815, Decatur simply captured the flagship of the Algerian Bey [ruler] and forced a capitulation.

    When the Bey later tried to repudiate the agreement, the British and Dutch bombarded Algiers.

    No such action against the "wasps' nests" along the Somali coast is possible today, even though the UN Security Council has authorised the use of the "necessary means" to stop pirates on the high seas and hot pursuit into Somali territorial waters.

    Law of the sea

    However, the resolutions that made these actions permissible (1838 and 1846) also contain restrictions.

    Everything has to be done in accordance with "international law" and this is interpreted as complying with the conditions of the International Law of the Sea Convention.

    This convention, in article 105, does permit the seizure of a pirate ship, but article 110 lays down that, in order to establish that a ship is indeed a pirate vessel, the warship - and it may only be a warship - has to send a boat to the suspected ship first and ask for its papers.

    This is hardly a recipe for a Denman - or Decatur-type action.

    Add to this legal restriction the relative lack of warships in the seas off Somalia - more than there were, but still insufficient - and the reluctance to tackle the pirates in their home bases, throw in the chaos in Somalia, where there is no effective government, and you have perfect conditions for piracy.

    Even if they are caught, they are simply handed over to Kenya whose legal system is not designed to deal with them.

    The German navy transported another batch of captured pirates to Kenya recently. But nobody knows how long they will be in custody there.

    And the UN Monitoring Group on Somalia issued a damning report last December in which it castigated ship owners for paying ransom.

    "Exorbitant ransom payments have fuelled the growth of [pirate] groups," it stated.

    The report also expressed concern about "the apparent complicity in pirate networks of Puntland administration officials at all levels."

    Puntland is a self-declared autonomous region of Somalia, right at the tip of the Horn of Africa.

    Since writing in December last year about the legal problems involved, I have had a lot of e-mails from people angry at the ineffectiveness of the measures taken so far and proposing their own solutions.

    These include:

    Convoys. Already done in the case of aid ships going into Kenyan and Somali ports.
    Arming the crews. The crews might not want this, though in the latest case the American crew of cargo ship Maersk Alabama did fight back
    Arming merchant ships with heavy guns. Ship owners might not want to risk an engagement at sea
    luring pirates into attacking apparently unarmed ships which then declared themselves as warships. Would this be in "accordance with international law"?
    Other ideas suggested would appeal to officers Denman and Decatur
  11. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Clean Out those Wasp's Nest

    How do you expect to 'talk any sense' with uneducated people who live by the gun??

    I like the idea of cleaning out a few of those 'wasp's nest' thus sending a 'gun message' to those fellows....continue this internationally recoqnized illegal activity, and you will most certainy die by the gun (no lock up, jail, or court.... die by the same weapon you are using). That is about the only thing they will understand...hopefully.
  12. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    UAV control

    And maybe with todays technology we could effectively stop this activity on a one-by-one basis, and do it in "International Waters". These UAV's have the capability to survey an overall big area, and then redirect some secondary UAV with relatively small weapons to knock-out any pirate vessels caught out in 'big waters' with weapons on board.

    It wouldn't take too long for this eye-in-the-sky threat to put a stop to a lot of these fellows going out to raid vessels...rumors would spread very quickly among these guys.
  13. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    It still relies on using "gunship diplomacy" and all the do-gooders would stop that option so it seems likely that a semi illegal operation with full deny-ability could be in order... (Soldiers on trial for illegal acts of killing offered a new identity to wipe out a hornets nest as mercenaries?)
  14. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Jesus---Pirates dont wear eye patches and have a parrot on their shoulder.

    Pirates today are usually the police or marine what ever with the pips temporary removed. Hardly a was in a wasp nest

  15. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    walking in unannounced no mater who you are might end up in a conversation with MR Winchester

    I gotta go with RHP on this one
    if some fool hasnt sense enough to quit while he is ahead
    he deserves what he gets
    and in this case its bound to be a housecleaning
    no way can those fools get away with open piracy for long
    and no way are there harbors going to remain
    they will start running a carrier or two in there and bomb a few to rich looking buildings and that funding for the pirates will dry up in no time
    you forget the USA has little interest in collateral damage as it does with money
    how that one of its own has been attacked
    its goodnight princess
    the parties over
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