Crandall Flyer 15ft

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by JakubT, Mar 19, 2015.

  1. JakubT
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Praha, CZ

    JakubT Junior Member

    Hi all, first post and many questions.
    I decided to build this boat and started collecting materials.
    I know there are plans online, some on DN Goodchild (cca 15 USD) and also
    on Classicwoodenboatplans. I think CWBP are only folder of pdf files for 175 USD. Can anyone recomend which one to chose?

    I believe it will be possible to build ebven from downloaded plans.
    It seems they are showing all important. It also seems my friend, aeronautic constructor with solid 3D experience (Solidwork and DraftSight)
    is interested in my project. He will probably clickit within few hours although i will be drowning in it for months. So if anybody will have suggestions for construction details, they will be highly appreciated.

    Second think, i would like to avoid plywood framing.
    Will you recommend to use steambended wood?
    Or holland construction process of glueing slices of veneer?
    What you think of that idea?

    Another thing is i would like to use only regional (preferably) wood.
    Keel, frames, ribs and chines preferably from black locust or oak.
    For planking and deck i will prefer larch. Can somebody confirm this choice?

    Other concerns i feel regarding steering. Will be hydroplane going between 40 and 50 knots safe enough with drum cable steering? What other options do I have? I dont want to use hydraulic system, boat is small and i want to
    hold the weight as low as possible.

    Other thing, cooling system. Although this boat will be cruising mainly
    freshwater, i want to have option to take her for holiday to taste some salty one. I thought of 2 circuit cooling system with some industrial plate heat exchanger.
    http://www.shenglin-tech.com/produc...changer.html?gclid=CMPw6oawtMQCFdQZtAod6lUAoQ
    Something like that, will that work?
    Please let me your suggestions.
    Is that good plan?

    I know the build will take time, money and other recources.
    I have place, experience with woodworking, i am former modeler with patience
    and determination in mid 30ties willing to left something nice behind.
    I see only papers at the work behind myself... so i am taking the build as therapy.
    And i am not in hurry, first wood was cut down this winter and is currently at saw mill. Around 3 to 5 years untill it will completely dry out. Time to save money for desired engine. Family is at first place and my wife wont allow me hastily spending. Currently building stitch & glue 10 ft sailing dinghy for her to calm down the objectives against petrol:)
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,913
    Likes: 1,767, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    The details should be in the construction plans. Many plans sold online are only the lines plans. There are sometimes general scantlings, but no details. Contact the vendor to make sure the plans are complete. If you have to backwards engineer the lines plans to get all the details, it may cost the same or more than a custom design.
     
  3. JakubT
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Praha, CZ

    JakubT Junior Member

    OK then, does anybody saw http://dngoodchild.com/5415.htm plans of Flyer 135 inch?
    Are these construction plans? I have table of offsets allready with building instructions and list of materials and inner view of hull only.
    Probably also popular mechanic but just 5 pdf lists. Above mentioned site is offering 16 list. What is on them? Its the question.
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,126
    Likes: 500, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Welcome to the forum.

    Classicwoodenboatplans is a site that has cataloged a bunch of old, public domain plans and in a lot of cases suggesting they've "modified" them to some extent. Basically it's a rip off of free plans that they're happy to sell to folks that don't know about them. The Flyer 15 you've had you eye on is a dangerous craft. It's a very old class C hydro and isn't very stable at high speed. We've learned a lot since it was drawn up and much better high speed stepped hydros are available.

    The Goodchild site does the same thing, but makes not attempt to fool anyone, simply reprinting plans and books that aren't easy to find anymore.

    As far as changing scantlings, I'd strongly recommend against this, though using locally available species substitutions is always a wise idea. When make these decisions, match up the spec'd species with similar physical properties, of the stuff you have available.

    Drum and cable steering never was a very secure way of controlling a boat. It works and at moderate speeds and use can be serviceable, but at high speed you do want some insurance, so consider a TeleFlex unit or similar.

    Cooling can be accomplished with an exchanger, though you'd be best advised to use a real marine system, then cobbling together something that might work for a while, before it clogs and cooks your engine.
     
  5. JakubT
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Praha, CZ

    JakubT Junior Member

    Thank you PAR,
    i know its really unstable platform, i will probably use max 40 kW engine for first experiments. And as i stated, i dont expect i will spend a lot of time burning petrol in it, i like its shapes, i will prefer if it will be v-hull boat but didnt found anything so streamlined... And as wood has been just cut, i have time to change decision.
    On the other side, Flyer is small enough for first trully wooden boat building experience, or to set up small fire without attention of fire brigade if i wont be satisfied with result of build:) Family will also appreciate something for 4 and preferably with sundeck as i have 2 daughters. But will they be interested in spending time with parents in the time boat will be finished? So many decisions.

    Regarding teleflex, one boater has a issue here with corrosion inside the tube resulting in boat without control doing square feet hole in mahagony when kissing pier....
    Are there any other options beside cable/pulley or Teleflex?

    And regarding dutch style boatbuilding / laminating veneer. Where should i source info from? Is anywhere on net some comprehensive source of info regarding this form of boatbulding? Or recommendable, good book on the theme, preferably in english, less welcome in deutsch?

    Many thanks for your input. Regarding use of non marine equipment, in our country without sea is everything "marine" twice as much expensive as in neigbouring germany...
    So i am considering all options. Regarding first engine, its possible to buy here ald one for around 70 usd, before (cheap) overhaul.
     
  6. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,418
    Likes: 58, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 584
    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    I love that design. I've been tempted myself to build it just for head turning it would do. Maybe, there is a chance that the underwater portion could be updated to modern shapes and improved stability.

    Here is a free resource of the plans.

    http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=HydroPlanes/Flyer
     
  7. JakubT
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Praha, CZ

    JakubT Junior Member

    I allready have this plans, and as i asked, only 5 lists. DNGoodchild is offering 16 sites.
    What are these 11 more showing?
     
  8. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,126
    Likes: 500, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Let me see if I understand you correctly. You know it's an antique, unstable design (read it has previously killed people) and you still want to build it. You know there are lots of designs that incorporate, the many things we've learned, in the nearly a century since it was drawn up, but still want this puppy. One other boater in your area has had maintenance issues (read likely lack of proper care on their part) with the TeleFlex, so you're discounting the whole product line as a result. And you want to change scantlings a bit. I'm not sure anyone can help you, so go for it and keep your life insurance premiums paid in full.
     
  9. JakubT
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Praha, CZ

    JakubT Junior Member

    I repeat once more, thanks for your input PAR, but you are giving answers for questions that were not asked. If you have idea of similar boat with v-hull, lets direct me to it.
    If you want to offer plans for similar boat with v-hull, lets go on.
    Regarding people killed by flyer, can you please provide source or links?
    What was the reason, were the boats overpowered, were they driving rough waters?
     
  10. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,126
    Likes: 500, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    This is an "inclined bottom" variant that was tried in the 30's. It's very unstable in roll and yawl axises and racing these (as well as many others) have taken lots of lives over the years, so a list isn't necessary, though you should note there's a good reason you don't see this set of shapes used by anyone since the 1930's. You can accept this wisdom (and history) or learn the hard way. As to the double ended, "aero/deco" shapes employed in this era, well I don't know of any off the top of my head, but no doubt one could be drawn up, if it hasn't been yet.
     
  11. JakubT
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Praha, CZ

    JakubT Junior Member

    Will you consider Mucho Gusto as better idea?
    I prefer small toy for 2, up to 45hp.
    Inboard is a must, got small engine under bench.
    As i was thinking of your suggestions,
    and some friends call me safety officer,
    i will probably consider other designs.
     
  12. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,126
    Likes: 500, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Mucho Gusto is a typical, pre '63 series warped bottom, class racer. It's much more stable than the Flyer 15, though still has the manners of boats shaped like this. The version from ClassicWoodenBoatPlans, seems to have an anti-trip chine flat installed, where the original versions of this didn't (and they'll trip). These also tend to pound pretty good in any kind of chop, but this is fairly typical of shapes like this. The Glen-L "Cracker Box" is typical of this type of design. Don't expect crisp handling from these puppies, as straight shaft drives are the red headed step children, to vectored thrust steering (outboards, I/O's, jets, etc.). The Glen-L Tiny Might is a 12' version of similar lines.
     

  13. JakubT
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Praha, CZ

    JakubT Junior Member

    Tiny Might is really nice boat, i dont understand why i didnt found her sooner.
    How much knots can I expect from recomended 45 HP engine? And what about 60 HP?
    Is there any rule for that? Both available engines are less then 120kg with transmission.
    I guess i will hold the weight of hull around 100 kg. I am around 100 kg.
    Will it go at least 40 knots with one person onboard?
     
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.