could I pull a row of 1/2 sunk staples with 200+lb electromagnet?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Been doing some upholstery work, and the guys that do the actual fabric use a "basing gun" (FULLY automatic fire pnumatic staple gun approx 600spm (staples per minute) and fires the staples regardless of any contact with material, ie you pull trigger and stream of staples goes flying across room).

    The staples are little lighter and flater than regular paper staples and brass coated steel, and yes a magnet will pick them up for clean up.

    The "basing" operation is where they pull fabric taught with one hand, then holding Basing Gun just off surface shoot a row of staples 1/2 way sunk into the frame material (Medium Density Fiberboard MDF). Then, once the fabric is all "based" all the way around, they pull to more exact position, then shoot into final position with gun sinking staples all the way. Thus the based staples are still 1/2 sunk between the final staples and field of fabric.

    Then, we take side cut wire clippers to individually pull all the "basing staples" out, which is a chore.

    So I'm wondering if something like this, probably connected to a flat bar (on mag side) with curve on staple side, would be able to suck little 1/2 sunk staples out of MDF.
    264 LB (120kg) Electric Lifting Magnet Electromagnet Solenoid Lift Holding 100mm | eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/264-LB-120kg-Electric-Lifting-Magnet-Electromagnet-Solenoid-Lift-Holding-100mm/172144511205?hash=item28149cc8e5:g:sdYAAOSwB-1YpfwY:rk:2:pf:1

    The idea would be to drag an energized bar down a line of staples and rip out at least most of them quickly.

    Any chance of this working?
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I'd say no hope, but that is just a guess. I'd prefer to be wrong, and you get a result, though !
     
  3. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Very unlikely to work is my opinion. I don't think they would be enough pulling power. you can test it with a small, low cost and super high power special alloy magnet just to see if there would be enough force exerted. I'm thinking that a brush made with bristles of tiny fishing treble hooks might work. You could cut the sharp points off the treble hooks to make things more manageable, and probably one layer of the fishhook bristles would work.
     
  4. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

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  5. JamesG123
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    JamesG123 Senior Member

    ^This. Is an excellent idea. Magnets not so much.
     
  6. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    That is some really outside the magnetic field thinking. It would work no doubt. The only issue is the guys that do the actual upholstery iReal primadonnas and it's a very high-end company. When they upholster a rectangle they actually keep the threads on the line. So asking them to add an extra something to their process is going to be a non-starter. I guess it's really not that bad of a hassle to pull those Staples it was just an idea. I still might try it. I have played around with these electromagnets before but don't have one handy. Any electrical engineers out there know how one might Focus the magnetic pull down to a smaller surface or am I pretty much stuck with a certain amount of pull per square area?
     
  7. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    I guess you are. The force of a magnet is limited by the surface area. Have you ever wondered why there is no magnetic nail puller invented?
     
  8. Barry
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    Barry Senior Member

    you can buy different types of upholstery staple pullers for probably less than 10 bucks cheap to make the job easier and reduce the damage to the upholstery
     
  9. W9GFO
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    W9GFO Senior Member

  10. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    It's basting, with a t. And somebody defeated the nose contact switch. That is common enough with staplers, but not recommended for framing guns. They will kill somebody, quite possibly you, if you pick one up the wrong way around.
     
  11. Barry
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    Barry Senior Member

    Thttps://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/magnet-lifting/magnetic_force_calculator.htm

    Took awhile to find it. RX and Fallguy's comments about the surface area being the key is correct.

    If you have a magnet rated at 200 pounds that has an area of say 10 sq inches and you connect it to a 200 pound object that has a contact area of 10 square inches, then the magnet will lift
    200 pounds, 20 pounds per square inch.

    Attaching the same magnet to an object that has a 1 inch square contact area, would then pull 20 pounds.

    As the contact area of a staple is extremely small, it is unlikely that the magnet would have enough force to pull a staple
     
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  12. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    these guys have been doing this for over 50yrs. prob is staples that need to be pulled are longitudinal along 1/2" MDF and edge of MDF must be perfect. Going down the row with standard wire cutters works and is fast because staples are all ready easy to grab. I think those upholstery pullers are for when staple is stunk and you want to minimize damage.

    Pro-Tip for repairing small puncture hole in fabric from staple or nail: Don't mess with the hole, but gently poke with thin sharp instrument around the hole about 5mm away in circle, and work gradually closer.

    Pro-Tip part 2: of course, test in inconspicuous area first, and most fabrics will respond better to long-oval pattern of pokes, direction of oval to be determined by test.
     
  13. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    The hole repair is the same for filling a divot in golf.
     
  14. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I'm also wondering about those electro-mag cranes I see at scrap metal yards. Seems like direct contact points on these scrap brake drums would be almost zero. I always thought electro-mag force could flow through a conductor and small cross section, which is why (besides lot of juice) you see these cranes moving a long stringy load of assorted steel.

    Are these cranes only using a few 100 horsepower from their own little diesels or are they connected to "the grid" for real power?

    Do they use massive battery banks for big surge of power on tap?
     

  15. W9GFO
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    W9GFO Senior Member

    That calculator is not entirely correct. In addition to surface area, there also need to be sufficient thickness to the material - if the thickness is too thin to hold the magnetic flux then full pulling power is not achieved. When estimating the pull on a staple it will be less than the area calculation would lead you to believe since the staple is made up of material too thin to fully capture the magnetic flux.
     
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