Cost of Titanium

Hi Stumble

I noticed the titanium company you worked for had a titanium shackle on www.kickstarter.com that was successful.

Pictured is sneak look at developing a design I EDM wire cut from one of my old design titanium ratcheting wenches which is in the process of patent been applied online so can not show idea in complete form for a day or so but will place on kick starter in the next few days.

My designs which are made for the marine and boating environment are now mainly made from CPM S35VN stainless steel and Gr 5 titanium.

Gr5 titanium is much lower price per erea than CPM and less procedures such as does not need to be heat treated.
Each of the two materials has its advantages such as titanium the best for marine and flexible but lacks knife edge capabilities and HRC, CPM is reasonable for marine and has good HRC but when in 58 HRC is not flexible and of course as light and skin friendly.
Some of my designs are mixed materials and I like to class these as work of art that also functions as a useable tool which some are second to none for multi function use.

 

To give an idea of what a titanium multi tool item cost for your boat key ring, I have one displayed on https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/363092515/metperial-titanium-little-bit-more/description that has been displayed for a 30 day period and has 3 days to go that has virtually no marketing.

 

I have not been able to find small scraps, or buy in small quantities, titanium at prices anywhere near where I can get stainless or plain steel.

I want to buy small amount of sheet Ti to make some parts, but all of the sourses I know what a lot of money for it.

If the bulk production of Ti has brought the price down, it has not reached the local, small quantity supplier.

Where can I get a few square ft of 1/16" Ti sheet metal at a reasonable price?

 

Find a machine shop making Ti parts and buy the scrap.

 

Now I'm wondering how those "wire cutters" work.

They look like they'd work for pinning snake's heads or something.

 

A Wire Electrical Discharge Machine (Wire EDM) is the tool that Myark uses to cut out his gadgets from plates of titanium.



see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining

 

Thank you Imaginary number for explaining the EDM to Squidly

EDM are very popular in China as in tool making for molds such as dye castings, plastic injection and lost wax investment castings or like I use for very fine detail work on the Little Bit More multi tool or my next kick starter project is a new design titanium clip releases key ring that is EDM wire cut that is also an actual jewelry ring that I will make each size to fit individuals fingers.
In NZ, AU which are not common it would not be financial viable to use but in China they have owner operators at a price 10 X less but still make profit with low over heads and one person can operate up to 6 EDM machines at a time.
Because of EDM I have the cutting edge on this market to develop and design ideas for the western market.
The actual fine wire does not cut metal but the electrical currant produced by fine wire does the cutting.

 

Yes its a great advantage when you get away with paying people next to nothing.

 

Compare the wages in AU which I work some times as a specialized coded welder boiler maker, mainly 6G ASME 9 stainless steel heavy wall pipe for LNG gas or power stations earning on some work over $3000 a week after tax with accommodation, airfares paid including food, I am one of he lucky ones because of my trade skills and pick my work and why I have freedom to travel and take risk, but say a truck driver delivering steel such as Pointers job that the wage is just livable, AU which rent is about $400 + a week for a so so home or mortgages well well above that, then food if have family $300 then power, gas, rates, insurances, car, cloths, repairs and maintenances or like many child support while trying to have a new relationship and children, you need close to $1000 a week just to get buy, but in AU the truck driver wage is much lower than that unless does long hours which they have no choice to make ends meet.
Every one living beyond their means in AU or NZ knocks the smile of their faces and creates job insecurity's such as an example in Perth or Darwin where I work employment struggling and workers are mostly called Temps which means you are here to day and fired tomorrow and are generally treated as a number $ that if not up to $ you are fired on the spot which has created jockeying for there positions and working for less pay on long hours with a flat rate pay and no over time rates while blaming immigrant Asians stating they have taken their jobs when Asians are more reliable workers.
In China where I live this problems is rare as workers are treated as family, food and accommodation generally is supplied and jobs are secure, for example my large beach apartment rent is 500 RMB a month or $20 USD a week rent, power and gas is super cheap, the 20km bus ride to city each day is 2 RMB = 30c USD.
A CNC machine operator is about 5000 RMB a month for 40 hours and after that over time is paid and double time on Sundays and triple time of holiday times etc..
Rental is super cheap, houses are low cost to purchases with assistant government loans, food very low price, transport is super low including brand new cars are cheap to buy especially motor bikes or electric bikes, the other advantage in China materialism such as boating are very rare and seen as a waste of money and time, the same as large motor bikes or RVs ect.
That's why there are few stress heads and are happy with what they have to secure in their lively hoods.
Wages are actually higher in China if you compare living cost and job security with AU and NZ in fact NZ wages are shocking and not livable and why they are conservative and wary of each other or leave NZ to go to AU which is not much better because of the failing economy.
This is not putting AU or NZ down but a fact if compared to China daily living and wages as its nothing personal at all as I have many friends in AU and NZ who know exactly what I mean.
So all in all people who are working for next to nothing are in AU and NZ.

 

Well for a start i actually own the truck and have a good contract. I am a fitter who has spent many years on eartmoving equipment and drill rigs on various minesites all over w.a. you are bragging about 3000 a week . I earn more than that and i know plenty who earn that or more. You are a boilermaker with extra coded welding tickets and that is good but you are not the greatest tradesman on earth i am sure. I have family in china so i know quite a bit about what goes on there. And swisse tech have a range of excellent key ring multi tools if you need one.

 

This is some of the titanium plate I have been EDM wire cutting recently for my 1700 Kick Starter backers.
I purchased a tig welder the other day to weld the Gr5 titanium pins into the titanium multi tool I have designed, develop and manufacturing.

I have decided to manufacture my new designs in gr 5 titanium and CPM S35 VN stainless steel for upmarket products that I will release on kick starter campaigns for the next several years while introducing to the international marine market.

 

Myark,

To make that many parts did you explore investment casting followed by HIPPing? These days the molds are 3D printed and the per part cost should be far lower, even taking into account the low labor costs in China.

HIPPing ends up with mechanical properties about 99% as strong as a forged one.

 

Hi Stumble

I have explored lost wax casting for the past 20 odd years and learnt to design and manufacture my own molds as well as hands on QC during manufacture including titanium lost wax casting, you may of seen the gr5 titanium torsions suspension I designed and manufactured recently.

I make molds less price than 3d printers but can understand the saving if in the USA and agree lost wax casting is strong as drop forged when casting especially chrome molybdenum steel which comes down to the correct heat treatment used.

Pictured is the heat treatment factory with the leading engineer and I who have known for over 10 years and is the best advanced factory knowledge in the region such as recently heat treated CPM S35 VN stainless steel multi tools and after heat treatment the multi tools come out shiny and need no cleaning and the cost is unbelievable low with extreme quality.

With making the titanium parts from the EDM wire cutter is less cost and more accurate and no defects by cutting direct from plate also the accuracy's for the philips screw driver part that is CNC machined is much more finer quality finish and needs no bead blasting or tumbling like casting would that would destroy the edges as well on other models I EDM wire cut fine fingernail files which is impossible to do with lost wax casting.

The EDM cost is also low because I have joined in a partner ship with the manufacture and live above the workshop in a huge apartment on the top floor over looking the city.

Larger titanium models such as the titanium torsion suspension I designed and manufactured from lost wax casting is suitable because of its weight the cost is much lower and can as you know can blend structure shapes for extra strength to cut further weight down and cost down.

I have a choice of lost wax or CNC and EDM machining at my finer tips including a good stainless steel and chrome molybdenum steel lost wax casting factory 10 minutes drive away who are friends.

The Titanium casting factory I have been purchasing from for 10 years, I see a picture on Kick starter that your company you worked with that is making the titanium shackle has the same surroundings and an identical vacuum furnace in a picture displayed on their kick starter page that looks the same as the factory I cast with in China.

Pictured below is my wife and I at a said to be the largest lost wax casting factory in China which is in a small city that had about 50 other casting factories near by.

New Zealand has one that is very small and Australia they are very hard to find one.

Another picture is my apartment lounge region that cost 1000 RMB month or about $45 a week which is a large 3 bedroom attached 3 bathroom all to my self that can give and understanding of the low over heads needed to be able to develop new designs for the international marine market on a shoe string budget.

 

Lol. So yes.

At least when I priced this stuff out the cross over was somewhere around 500 small parts where casting made more sense. But it sounds like you also have some design elements where edm works better anyway.

 

That's correct as for a fine example is the Split second Key Ring I designed and manufactured from EDM wire cutting is impossible to lost wax cast.
I can place 10 plates on top of each other and cut 10 at a time and run 6 wire cutters at a time with one person.

I have an exciting new similar version of this Split Second Key Ring I have just finished developing that has multi tools added as well as finger nail file and bottle opener.