Concrete submarine

Thes edocuments can be filed with the international maritime organization along with your aplication for a valid AIS ID code. then every timethey pick up your AIS transponder on the surface they will have the documents. failure to use the international documents puts the burden back on the boarding party making the boarding party responsible for all acts or agressions verbal or physical against a vessil which impedes its progress in international waters. But treties between the US and most north and central american countries giv ehte uS boarding rights within the 200 mile economic zones.

Bets to play it safe and file those docs with the international group so they show up with the AIS data!

 

Euro sub not designed to stay in water!

By the way guys, the euro sub is not designed to stay in the water 24/7/365. It does not include any of the expensive active anti corrosion systems.

It is very dificult to design a metal sub to stay in the water at a mooring due to the marine life that sees the sub as a floating reef anywhere above 60'.

Most research / civialian subs are designed to be "Launched" iether from shore or from a ship with appropriate maitinence of external equipment between use. these crft seldom log more than a few hundred hour per year in the water!

Even the Ben Franklin required extensive external maintenance between extended multi day dives because these types of subs carry a lot of mission/ life critial equipment outside!

But even the concrete sub will need active components outside.

1) Propulsion (you will need to clean the propeller or plate it with antil fouling metal)
2) Rudder (hinges must be kept clear or driven by hydraulics that can self clear)


You can minimize the exposed systems by using a dual (anti fouling plated) prop and shaft configuration for steering, internal gyro and ballast for roll and pitch. This is a simple low maint tradeoff which only requires occasional "cleaning of the hull" with an inexpensive remotely piloted "Scrubber" ROV. This same ROV can carry the emergency cutting equipment for self rescue from entanglement and stored on the outside of the hull while under way.

Mind you this is not a high performance stealth configuratuion. But it is a very practical, safe, redundant configuration for snorkeling and occasional dives.

 

Thorwald,

I am not sure they have any competition if their stated goal is a 1st a habitat , 2nd a sub that stays in the water 24/7/365. They are addressing issues closer to a self propelled habitat. Currently there are no companies I am aware of that offer a design which meets the stated objectives of a trans oceanic submersible habitat. A key goal of their stated design is the ability to dive the haditat below a storm instead of outrunning it. Again FFF - Form Fits Function. There are not many ways to achieve their stated goals beyound the path they are on unless they re-state their goals.

If you know of any groups adressing that niche please post them!

P.s. Your expedition conversion looks great! Very effective use of space! A great example of form fit's function. Trawlers are MUCH BETTER conversion platforms for expedition Yacht than military or research ships designed arround much a different function. Great for those that want a small sub or ROV to explore under the keel. I have been on a few expedition ships converted from navy ships and even the "Revel" out of scripts and they do not boast anything near the luxury your expediction trawler shows!

In my opinion an open interior concrete sub is a much better base platform for a trans oceanic, self propelled, submersible habitat / yacht designed to dive under storms and visit the ocasional reef. A little interior work of the quality that your team has done would deliver exceptional livability for 4-8 people + crew of 2-4. Very few small private yachts ever sail with many more than that unless they are on a day trip to impress.

Surface = 0-12kts (8-10GPH)
Snorkle (25' depth) = 0-20kts (1-2 GPH)
Surface Independant Dive (< 200') = 0-9kts (.2-.5 GPH) (24-72 hours)

Imagine sitting at your mooring in the caribe and reading the weather fax report showing the tropical storm "Bad ***" has just grown to a full huricane and change course towards you. No problem, while everyone else is reiforcing their morrings you topp off the air and bateries as you run at 20kts on snorkle "Toward" the storm and the gulf stream and safety of deap water. Watching your storm scope and weather fax on your snorkle you decide to 'Play it Safe" and submerge completly 30 miles from the gulf stream. Three hours latter as you reach the gulf stream you can see from the surface depth sonar doppler that things are getting ugly upstairs while the crew makes plans for lunch and a movie. The computer shows that the gulf stream and propulsion (12kts combined) will carry you out the of the side nasty part of the storm in less than 10 hours. You call out to your 1st mate. " hey hun, do you feel like visiting Ron and Lisa in key west tomorrow? Sure" You take a quick look at the doppler sea state indicater log to confirm that you are infact heading toward "safe surface water" and set it to alert you when the sea state reaches safe limits for surface snokleing. Time for a Nap! Ron and Lisa Like to talk all night!


That's a far cry from frantically securing your small yacht at mooring and then running for the airport or shelter your self!

A wise man makes progress out of adversity!

Great site by the way!
Good luck!

 

Thanks for the kind words about my conversion projet and its website. We still have quite a way to go but at least we're on the right road.

We definitely plan to be able to carry a small sub (max. 10 tonnes) and I think the VAS are the best and safest design around although we may start out with a Uboat Works to test the market. They have some important limitations (like not being able to look downward) but they're 1/10 the cost.

Anyway, we first have a conversion to do.

T

 

Your welcome, and well deserved!

The VAS is a great little sub for supported operations on a cumfy expediton Yacht! It "may" cost more than the conversion, but it is nice!

Imagine that the VAS with the cost of the heavy crane it will be about the same as the concrete transoceanic submersible habitat!

But there is no way you want to build a ship to tote that concrete monster arround on anything lighter than an aircraft carrier! LOL That's why it has to be self propelled.

 

It's about Euro 1.8-2.2 million. The conversion a little over $ 4 million . So not more but a LOT of money.

T

 

That makes the 500K sub a nice place to start!

That makes the 500K sub a nice place to start!

My very preliminary estimate for the concrete self propelled habitat is:

Raw Hull -> $120K
(2) Diesel Electric & Props-> $60K
Energy Storage -> $10-$120K
Hatches and ports -> $50K
(2) Snorkle & Induction Valves -> $60K
Liquid / Dropable, Static & Dynamic Ballast & Gyro -> $50K
Navigation & Comunications -> $50K
Internal Accomidation fit out -> $80K


= $600K-$1M depending how much performance and luxury you want.

 

That is a clear NO - given the problematic more detailed explained at:

http://imulead.com/tolimared/concretesubmarine/marine/submarine_yacht_authority_concern

- in a nutshell no involuntary tecnology transfer to the bad guys...

Well if you would look for a guy who ever built 3 functional private concrete submarines - that would be me...
If you look for a guy who has practical experience in sailing concrete submarines for many years - that would also be me then , if you look for somebody who personally dived and tested concrete submarines - that would be....well we know that already...
Therefore - if you look for the closest thing to a "concrete submarine expert" you can get on this blue planet - aaem that would be me then too - if you look for a manager with experience in implementing controversial projects in many different fields in hard to work countries - you could also take me...if you would look for somebody who has a long recort to have the guts not only to bring up "concerns" but pull it off - .... you could also .... ok i will not be boring....

I would suggest this as "best of the thread" - - it is like hearing a cow saying "I am not a herbivore"

It looks a bit complicated but US laywers confirmed to me that having a flag, a radio, a hull registration number in ANY country - will do it. Use yellow paint to be not accused of "camuflage intent"

Careful guys we are on a public forum here - what you are doing is going against my good name, making damage to my trademark...
As i am not funded by drugs - and can show it - i could be tempted to get some extra money sueing you - do you have a "dirty mouth liability insurance" ? - watson is expert on insurance issues...what about the good practice of a "public apology" for a "public insult" ?

 

Thats rich - coming from the expert at obsfucation and innenuendo. You missed your calling, you should be a Real Estate Agent or Politician with your skills at avoiding actually answering basic questions.

The latest example is the best

Talk about inane excuses. Bad guys want concrete submarines ???? They can afford *real* technology.

 

Welmer,

When you post something on the internet it becomes public, you become public and your project becomes public. You post pictures of a big black sub, that has been sitting in the same place for a while. People have questions.

I understand your defensiveness also, I am doing a large boat conversion. And everyone I know thinks I am crazy. Yet I have done this many times before. A true entrepreneur has to have a thick skin and take a few hits. Trust me everyone here respects you for trying something different.

Unfortunately there are not enough pictures, diagrams etc... to show that what you are saying is true. ************* (see below) which is a scam has better pictures than you. Your pictures could be that of gasoline tank with a fan propeller stuck on back. At least you didn't photoshop something.

Anyway, make us a believer and the world will open its door to you and give you everything you want. Follow the Jacques Costeau model, Innovate and make public for the benefit of mankind, just file a bunch of patents..

Later

A real scammer http://www.*****************/*************/Advanced_Hulls.htm

 

MyDauphin, about Bentley yacht, I remember on a e-mail I asked him why he calleds his first boat enterprise Bugatti, then Bentley. I suggested the next will be Fiat, or Topolino, or why not an other car brand. He answered to me by insulting me and saying that my mother (I don't know why my late Mother was involve ) was a nobody. The guy is a fraud, is an rude imbecile and a real piece of crap with no balls. I told him to cool off, and be responsible, he never answered.

 

Hm i am a optimist and i know that building a 200 ton concrete submarine yacht is a "manageable task" in spite of all - i am not sufficient optimist to think that "make believers" out of 100% of the audience is a "possible task".

I have heard that NASA still has a hard time to convince 20% of its own countrymen that the moonlanding was "anything other than a big fraude" - and they had decades of time and billions of billions of tax dollars available (i suppose no addional discussion, wire diagram, whatever, they might provide will change that significally) - i have no billions of tax dollars, i have no decades of time - so if you allow me i skip that task.

In fact i already have sufficient "believers" and "supporters" and "investors" i need to make my project work - so going much beyond that would not even be useful... - why should i do that?

- especially when going very deep in tecnical details on public forums will do heavy damage to my project on the "authority management front" -

Authorities in colombia and united states are not very happy with guys giving detailed technical instructions on ACME, submarine building, rocket technology, explosives, over public forums on internet - for reasons that i do well understand and politicly support.

Doing so may trigger intents to legislate my brand of yachting freedom out of existance...and we have seen that...

In fact building yacht submarines is a management task and you need to be a kind of good ambassador - (yes watson politics) of your sport to pull it off.

In fact the question of a wireing diagram of a diesel engine is a quite boring theme - just get a basic engineering book...what is the heck?

 

PanAmMan - that is quite a vision! - i would like to have your OK to reprint it on the (concretesubmarine.com) website.

I would not have much use for some of the tecnical items you describe.
"depth sonar doppler" - "doppler sea state indicater" - i would just have a snorkel top cam.

- this is a very important point -

...but this does not mean that carsten did "something wrong" making his sub out of steel. His sub is a submerged saturation dive base built to serve carstens goal to explore shipwrecks in the area. It is able to work with internal overpressure so can be understood as giant autopropelled deco chamber - if you talk to carsten you will see that he is re-defininig how saturation diving is done he is not only building a submerged dive base/deco chamber but also the light closed circuit equipment for saturation dives to use in that missions - he is basicly putting the million dollar saturation diver support sistem used in offshore industry into his 70 ton eurosub - he is a clever guy and a exeptional u-boat engineer - i am sure he will pull it off - a very different aproach for a different task. - the ability to stay in water over years of use is not a key principle in this boat - nor is live aboard quality.

On the other hand i am going for what could be described as "autosufficient habitat" with a design life of 200 years (like other floating concrete offshore structures ) and afloat repair only - as a basic concept principle. Carsten once called it a "submerged houseboat" in a e-mail when we was discussing concepts - i like that!

Very good point too...Ben Franklin was designed to test out the live aboard quality of a small crew in a small space in ABSOLUTE insulation as a base experiment for "skylab". So make it last was not a point either. The giant battery pack in the keel (outside) is supplying comfort and life support during on month without any reload on surface. This is a thing that can do Grumman for testing out space missions - but not very practical for a private submarine yacht - you would have to change battery after 3 years - a prohibitive cost factor...

I really like that idea - in my prototype yacht the "scrubber rov" was I with a ABC gear - and a hand scrubber. If you plan dangerous entanglement missions a cutting ROV will definitly be a asset.

You seem to be the only one here to really understand where this concept is going. If you express it that way you automaticly see clearer why we do adopt some tecnology aspects from offshore platforms, why seasteading, ocean real estate is the next logic step (yes, watson real estate agent).

You also see why we are not that much concerned about the guy with the blue jacket applying his picky boating rules in a local yacht club marina...by the way Peter Madsden always had his sub parked in a yachtclub and they did not even charge - they where so happy to have him there as a "promotion asset" that they did NOT ask neither for money nor for club rule fit...you may have a problem in a golf club wearing a red jacket when you are ordinary member - but they will not make problems if tiger woods comes trough the door with a "not rule fit jacket" - as submarine yacht owner you are in a similar situation.

On contrary - we are offering 331 Euro per ton of displacement. We are convinced that we can bring up a waterbased living platform (submergable, hurricane safe, open ocean capeable, autopropelled or not) at a cost per square feet lower than a apartment in New York and a maintainance cost lower than suburban housing. (real estate again...)

Our merit is being the first to pull tecnology fields that distant like, submarines, offshore drilling, tunnel building, yacht living, seasteading together and come up with a "never seen before" solution that fits a real need - and this is good invention and good business and good management altogether.

Anybody who wants to join us in that task - welcome on board!

Cheers,
Wil
concretesubmarine.com

 

Wil, if you want people to know-tell them. If you want to hide in the middle of the ocean, don't. That said, I have no doubt that you can build a 200 ton submarine. Moving it, putting in water, and make it go up and down safely.... Priceless....

I will remain a skeptic until I see more...

 

I have spoken to Wil about getting a project going, and I will post what I have in mind on all the connected blogs.
A lot of people with varying levels of expertise in yacht submersible floating habits or what have you. My idea is to pool our resources and start a submarine build from my current location in Stockton. I have considered other locations, and think this is a good place to do it. It is easy to view my location here on any of the map sites. I have put a lot of thought into this, but any other ideas are welcome.
That is the key to making this work, input from others that can assist with their ideas and know-how. I think construction in the US would be beneficial in numerous ways, from paperwork, to materials, and the ability for people involved to visit the site. This could be organized with people on site during their individual skills, but they would be welcome at any time.
My connection with Wil is not merely altruist, as I want my own personal yacht sub and a co-op could bring that goal closer. It has other positive aspects which we, as a whole, could discuss.
I can invest what I have and any ideas, such as an escrow accounts etc. are needed in this first step. There are whole communities involved in revitalisation in mind. A concept such as ours could fit in well with those ideas. Not just from pleasure yachters, but from EV (electric vehicle) aspects, self contained power replenishment using the power of the sea, and a place to live. The possibilities ae endless.
I look forward to getting this going.
Steve