CMD "project Zeus" VS VOLVO "IPS"

Discussion in 'Pod Drives' started by gerard baladi, Sep 24, 2006.

  1. gerard baladi
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    gerard baladi Junior Member

    I saw on Cummins Mercruiser site the new propulsion system about to be introduced at the Miami Boat show . "Project Zeus".

    There are similarities to the Volvo's "IPS" but it looks like they have taken the Idea and improving on it. (it is not the first time Mercruiser emulates Volvo)

    I guess we will have to wait and see the actual performance of this new system to open a dedicated forum, but until then any comments?
     
  2. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Well, it's definitely Merc's version of the IPS. The two makers have been copying each other forever. No surprise there.
    With the aft-mount prop and the breakaway skeg, it should handle damage better than the Volvo. Merc admits that efficiency-wise, puller and pusher props are about equal in such a setup (cheers to scientific validity beating marketing hype there :) ).
    The trim tab is a cool idea, it'll probably add some drag though. Merc seems insistent that the thing be tunnel mounted, which would seem to be detrimental to overall efficiency. Overall I don't expect it will beat the Volvo in open water. The computerized controls, though, could be really neat around tight docks. Especially since the Zeus drives can vector independently of each other.
    On the whole, a promising system. It won't force IPS out of the market, but it should prove a worthy adversary for a slightly different mix of applications.
     
  3. gerard baladi
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    gerard baladi Junior Member

    ( Merc seems insistent that the thing be tunnel mounted, which would seem to be detrimental to overall efficiency.)

    I once read an article in professional boat building magazine about tunnel design and how to optimise its efficiency. I went searching through them briefly to add the reference date and issue # but couldn't find the article. (sorry, will try again later).

    The track record of sterndrives has not been such a good one (high maintenance, and problematic) I wonder if either "Zeus" or "IPS" will be better
     
  4. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "The track record of sterndrives has not been such a good one (high maintenance, and problematic) I wonder if either "Zeus" or "IPS" will be better."

    This is a real concern for a cruising boat.

    The claimed better efficency of 30% less fuel would be great for any cruiser , but rowing home from 20 miles out doesn't sound like fun.

    It will be years till version 3 comes out , including the fixes for the usual failures in version 1 and the fix failures in version 2.

    A great idea , if youre going to build a boat in 5 years.

    Volvo probably has their bugs worked out by now , but their pricing is more usefull for NASA than mere cruising folks
    Repair parts? " FORGETABOUTIT", no one can afford them!

    FAST FRED"
     
  5. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    True enough, Fred. The engine makers often forget, when they come out with crazy new stuff like this, that it's not invincible and some owner, someday, is going to have to fix the thing. If that turns out to cost half as much as the original engine, and word gets out, smart buyers will tend to avoid it.
     
  6. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    I dont think too much is new besides the electronics. They have been making the counter-rotating drive as an outdrive for a while.

    Probably the old mechanicals with a different mount system and a big big computer.

    Guess these guys have never been out in an electrical storm , or heard of an EMP strike.

    ALL these full electronic engines scare the heck out of me , to be used on a cruiser , rather than a day boat.

    Tier 2 has been forced on the new build fish boats , if there is going to be problems , the fish gatherers will be very vocal about lost time.

    FAST FRED
     
  7. gerard baladi
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    gerard baladi Junior Member

    If we look at each system independently: twin prop counter rotating, Trim tabs, Smartcraft, thru hub exhaust, etc... nothing new here.
    what's new, is that the drive is under the hull instead of the transom and the maneuvers are handled by joystick (I guess to be able to operate each drive separately). Also that everything is integrated in one package.
    Now that Cummins/Mercruiser came out with the concept, I guess they will have to define the boat's characteristics to suggest which package suits best.
     
  8. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The dual counter rotating props seem the key to any claimed perfprmance increases, not the position under the boat .

    Does anyone have experience with the current diesel engine and out drive package , in terms of reliability?

    Does anyone have opinions on this style package on a cruising vessel(500hrs /year,,rather than day boat) ?

    FAST FRED
     
  9. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

  10. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    I would, of course, hate to see the bill from the fuel dock after feeding four IPS-600 units at 435 horses a pop.....
     
  11. Nojjan
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    Nojjan All thumbs...

    If I understand it correctly you would feed 4x435 hp IPS or 2 x 1240 hp on normal shaft (trusting the 30% efficiency advantage). I would rather pay the fuel bill on the IPS configuration.
     
  12. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Marshmat,

    Many years ago, I was privileged to welcome my parents to stay at the home of a very wealthy friend for whom I was house sitting. My friend is very generous and my parents stayed in the lap of luxury for a week. My father, ever the pessimist, remarked that he would not like to have to pay the fuel bill to heat the house. To which my reply was that he would never have to, as the house was entirely out of his reach. The same applies to your remark about not wanting to see the fuel bill from the fuel dock. If a person can afford $4 million for the boat, they can afford the running costs. The very rich value their time. The not so rich waste their time in sour grapes. I invest my time in learning new things. Each to his own.

    Pericles
     
  13. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member


  14. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    The Zeus and IPS remind me of those ww1 airplanes with all the engines and props on top of wing. Going back to basics, KISS and big prop are best. Alot of boats are capable of many things because of their light weight and high HP. But put them in a rough sea where they have to travel at hull speed and things change. They wallow like a seasick duck.

    I saw Lazzara 85 pull out of dock at Miami Show very impressive. But I can do same if I get bow & stern thruster and save $500k
     
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