Chainplate leaks

I am attempting to stop a leak at the chainplates on a New York 30. I have reefed out the previous sealant which was probably BoatLife or something like it, and am debating how to proceed. Should I clean the area as well as possible and try to do a better job with a similar product?

I am inclined to use some cotton caulking and paint first. Any thoughts?

re: cleaning the area, any suggestions on the best way to remove silicone residues?

Thanks for any responses

 

It sounds like you need to fully re-bed the chain plates. This means removing them unfortunately. This can be done with the rig still erected, but does require the boat be solidly blocked on the hard.

I've never had the plates on a "30" off before, but have a few other Herreshoff yachts. Your instincts are correct and some cotton string may be in order, in fact is likely there, just worn out or rotted.

It was common for them to place a circle of string around fastener holes in wet lead to offer a last line of defense. The plate should be bedded in a Dolfinite type (oil based bedding) goo. The problem with these types of sealants is they aren't adhesive and they can be mashed out of a joint or contact surface with pressure changes or a lot of movement. They're not very elastic compared to the modern goos.

The usual solution at a "marina" is to reef out a groove around the plate and smear in some sealant/adhesive (3M 5200). This works for a while, but isn't really addressing the true issue, which is probably excessive movement. Goo in a tube can't cure your problems until: one the movement is locked down and two, the plate removed, the whole surface cleaned and new bedding applied. A bead around the edge isn't fixing anything.

Getting the different types of caulk off wood is a pain in the ***, frankly. Silicone and polyurethane are the worst. Scrape, sand and cuss, scrape, sand and cuss are the typical techniques. Hopefully, they left a coating of the original oil based sealant, which lessens the goo in a tube's ability to stick.

If you want to stay original, well hell, it's a NY 30 for God's sake and I think you're suppose to bow your head when you mention old Capt. Nat's name (I digress).

Oil based sealants on well match surfaces, with a piece of string around each hole, laying in the Dolfinite or the base lead coats (I find it easier if you just put the string in the Dolfinite, once mashed down, it's all good).

The real issue here is why the movement. The usual culprit is fasteners and hole damage. Once you remove the plates, this will be come fairly clear and it's assumed you'll restore the holes and renew the fasteners.

How about a few pictures to show the lubbers here what a real yacht suppose to look like.

 

And this is why one can get divergent quotes on a repair job. The other guy might nibble a little goo out and squeeze a little more in.
Why does the boat have to be on the hard?

 

So you want a 43', one hundred year old yacht, bobbing around in it's slip with how many chain plates removed? Please . . .

 

Good grief, you are arrogant.
One at a time. Wind is a bigger threat than sitting in the water. Bobbing? No, one doesn't want to bob.

 

It wouldn't be disasterous to do the job after hauling the boat at the end of the season. Just sqeeze some #5200 into the cracks now and cove it onto the tangs. It won't be a good fix but it won't likely leak this year either. It would speed up the job if all of the chainplates could be removed first. The mast bury is enough even without any shrouds once the boat is on the cradle.

 

Arrogant, possibly, but I tend to react this way when foolishness abounds, particularly around the likes of a NY 30. An owner of a yacht of this caliber isn't interested in a, "well. I thought everything might be okay" sort of mind set. They need (likely will insist) to know a professional is on the task and no harm will come to non-replaceable parts. Alan is correct, there's enough mast bury to safely perform this on the hard with all the plates removed and a few "preventers' rigged.

 

you can do it afloat, it may be a good idea to replace the fastenings, or one day, it may be tomorrow, or 5 years time, the rig may go overboard,

 

"... "well. I thought everything might be okay" sort of mind set." Did I suggest anything of the sort?
If you have ever actually touched a NY30, I will bow out and not iterate that you are compensating for a lack of professionalism by talking about everyone else's lack of same, and are guilty of the greatest of mortal sins (its just a boat, dude, and while often heard at boatyards, "we're not building a piano here" - granted, perhaps in this instance, we are). Even so, this is just not that big of deal...

 

I'm not sure what kind of insurance you carry, if any at all, but when working on a Herreshoff, you are working on a piano and if that piano's 100 year old stick fell over, because you where taking a chance with it, when a nasty swell rolled in, or a passing wake upset things or mother nature intervened, well I can tell you what most any insurance company's reply to a claim will be. Maybe you have the pockets to eat these sort of things, but I don't know any business that can tolerate this level of irresponsibly and stay in business.

Yes, I have worked on HMC builds (and Capt. Nat designs), just never rebedded a chain plate on this model.

The bottom line is you work safe or you get screwed eventually. 100 year old classics, aren't the best choices to elect to take chances with, because biting down on a screw up at this level, means you'll never see this type of work again, assuming someone is willing to insure your continued efforts.

Can it be done in the water, sure, but at twice the cost. People that own yachts at this level, didn't make their money by paying more for someone else's troubles. They buy the good stuff, expect the good stuff and don't run into an unexpected "oops" without someone (usually not them) paying through the nose for the trouble. This doesn't mean thing don't go wrong or mistakes aren't made on these yachts. What it does mean, is far fewer things go wrong, far fewer mistakes are made and every effort is instilled to protect the investment in the yacht.

I've had this conversation many times with this type of yacht and owner. It always ends up the same way. I give them the good, the bad and ugly of what needs to be done, most of which they're expecting anyway, because I'm not the first they've had look at it. Then the conversation goes something like, "Well, that's fine sir, but what is the right way and how much does this change the quote". Then they think about it and though they don't like the extra costs, they also don't usually like the prospect of leaving something to chance and elect to get it done right. This is why the yacht is over 100 years old. It's had this type of owners.

 

I used to drive by one every morning at four. I always meant to stop and talk in the day but never did. It looked good in the calm of night, reflecting off the water.
A majority of these are gone now and didn't make it 100 years. In these parts, West, an earthquake is more likely to do damage than a wave in a marina. These boats were meant to float and it is not irresponsible to do the job in the water. Good luck and way to stick by your guns. I'll probably never work on one and you might.

 

It's not irresponsible to attempt this type of maintenance on a floating 30'' production boat, who's mast can easily be replaced in the event of a mishap. This just isn't the case when the potential damaged or destroyed pieces can't be replaced or will significantly reduce the value of the yacht.

This is the whole point. If you have one of a kind, invaluable or none replaceable elements to work with, you can take a chance and hope your insurance company doesn't find out, plus have nothing go wrong. Or you can do it with respect to what you're working with, not get sued or have insurance premiums go through the roof, if not canceled. Of course, this assumes you can satisfy the client, now that he's been burned from what they'll think is negligence. It's just not a wise way to do business at this level. With an ODay 30 sure, not a surviving HMC masterpiece.

 

It's not even an issue. Like I said, seal it with bubble gum and wait till October. Haul the boat and then do the repairs. With my boat I use just about any cheap fix that will get me through the season and I then do all the repairs correctly when I'm right there by my shop or in it and I have electricity, many tools, controlled conditions, and no weather/water issues.
It makes no sense to tackle something as fundamental as a chainplate removal for the simple reason there's a drip when it rains when the season is still not over.

 

Agreed, some duck tape should hold for the month or so left to the season there.

 

par, how many pianos have you worked on