Catalina 22 with a 55 hp outboard engine

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by san juan 26, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. san juan 26
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    san juan 26 New Member

    I am a former J24 sailor, retired now, and thinking of moving to
    Sequim washington. I have always wanted to cruise the Canadian
    San Juan Islands. This is my fantasy: I buy an old Catalina 22
    and mount a 200 pound 55 HP outboard on a cut down, reinforced
    stern, and switch to double rudders. The boat has a fairly flat bottom,
    but a rounded stern. The 2 inch (+/-) thick, 500 pound centerboard
    hangs about 12 inches (+/-) below the hull in the up position.
    Will it plane? How will it handle? The summers there are light wind,
    the distances are great, and I like the idea of a fast dash across
    The Straits Of Juan De Fuca to Victoria the first day out.
     
  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Most likely the hull will crack and the boat will sink. They are not designed to take the slamming loads planing speeds would create. The rig will also increase the stresses each time the boat slams, which may damage it too. Overall, it is not a good idea.
     
  3. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Macgregor do just that, although they have made big compromises regarding sailing performance and stability to achieve high motoring speeds

    I doubt if a Catalina will have enough buoyancy aft to take the 200lb weight aft of the transom (that's like a big man standing behind the backstay)

    but see here if you are serious

    http://olympic.craigslist.org/boa/3541758836.html

    BTW the San Juans are in the USA, it's the Gulf Islands that are in BC

    (I write this in Port Townsend and I'm going to Sequim shortly to see our new 28ft powercat which will be used as a Gulf Island cruiser)

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  4. sean9c
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    sean9c Senior Member

    Lots of powerboats for sale on craigslist. Why not just buy on of those?
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Catalina has a moment to trim that would cause her to squat about an inch and a half with a 200 pound outboard on her transom. Of course, this doesn't count the additional 100 pounds of fuel and start battery, nor the 50 pounds of remote steering and controls either, so, maybe she'll squat another inch.

    Her shape would permit her to plane, but she'd be quite nose high and rolling would be a constant problem too, as she sat down on her quarters and attempting to drag those aft midship sections along. Some well shaped and placed runners might help, but sailing qualities would suffer, as if tossing a 300 pound package of gear, on the very end of her wasn't enough of a determent.

    The transom would need to be substantially reinforced and some longitudinal stringers installed as well, likely tabbd to a athwart bridge, on the centerboard case. In short, sure you can do it, but it's a lot of effort and expense for a boat poorly designed to accommodate and handle the weight and power of this arrangement. A better choice would be pushing the Catalina with a 20 HP outboard, which would still need some transom reinforcement, and accepting the speed limitations of this, which would likely be in the low teens. This would be reasonably safe (she'd still roll around a bit) and much faster then the 6 MPH speeds she's normally capable of. Lastly, your fuel usage will be pretty high attempting to push this hull to these speeds, so bring a big fuel tank.
     
  6. san juan 26
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    san juan 26 New Member

    Thanks for the brainstorming comments PAR,
    It would be wonderful if a 25 hp outboard could get it on a plane.
    I would put the fuel tank under the front bunk, and the motor
    would be locked in place. The rudders would be lowered to about
    8 inches deep and they would steer the boat. The motor would carry
    hydrofoil fins to help it get up on a plane, and float the stern.
    The motor would only be taken to full power in calm conditions
    and flat seas. I wonder if a bow sprit and a big jenny plus the motor
    could give you a good ride off the wind in those protected waters
    of the Gulf Islands?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    To see 12 MPH, you'll be pushing the crap out of the Catalina and she'd still be in semi plane mode (2.3 S/L), with her bow well up. Ventilation plate fins on the outboard aren't going to help much and placing additional weights in the bow also would be detrimental to performance potential. You'd need WOT to achieve these speeds and motorsailing with this arrangement, would be risky to say the least, probably dangerous.

    The basic problem is hull shape on this old gal. She planes off differently then a powerboat, surfing on her after midship sections, rather than on her stern sections like a powerboat. This makes one huge wave train and requires globs of power. I've never seen a Catalina anywhere near 2.3 S/L (usually less than 2.0 S/L or about 9 MPH), but I could picture one, wallowing pretty badly if forced to this speed. It would be fun, right up until instability cause a capsize. I did this sort of thing as a kid, placing 5 - 10 HP outboards on the back of small canoes. Get fun, right up until she rolls over on you.
     
  8. san juan 26
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    san juan 26 New Member

    I realize this is a goofy idea, but PAR has got me thinking
    about hull design. It is winter, and I am retired so
    I have nothing better to do. If I flatened out the stern section
    to extend the planeing surface aft, would this old boat jump right up
    on a plane, and not be held hostage to these mysterious forces
    called suction, and drag, and wave train that I know nothing about.
    I would sand off the gell coat, build a form and clamp it to the hull,
    and pour in 4lb. density polyurethane 2 part resin. I would sculpt
    the shape, and then roll on a coat of 10 lb. density foam,
    then sculpt, then a layer of cloth, a couple coats of fiberglass resin,
    then fair and paint. Would this work? What would it do to the flow
    around the hull when sailing?
     
  9. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    A Catalina 22 is capable of planing in its normal form, if only a bit above its "hull speed". Most owners will never experience this if they are not familiar with the conditions under which it is possible. I won a race in a Regionals once by recognizing the situation and ran away from the fleet. Catalina 22s are not very fast and running away may be a stretch though.

    There are many examples of boats that have hull forms designed for semi-displacment speeds that have hull modifications aft that permit planing. The Bartender is one and the Latin American Panga is another. They have wing like appendages aft similar to what you are describing that enhance the aft planing surface.

    As some have mentioned, balance may be a problem with much added aft weight. Normal balance is with a small outboard on the transom and the 550# swing keel and mast forward. As a powerboat, some rebalancing will be needed to hold the trim in an acceptable range. I think the main hull is strong enough to take speed up to about 20mph as is although the transom will need some strengthening for a large outboard. It would not take much if anything for a 25hp but going to a 50hp will probably need more extensive reinforcement.

    Lots of similar conversions on sailboats have been done but they mostly stick to displacement speed and do not face the issues noted here.
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Agreed, it difficult to ask a Catalina to do more than 8 knots, which is well above it's usual 6. You could reshape the after sections a bit, but you'll need a great deal more understanding of how things work, to design after sections or wings. Then of course will come the structural elements. The Catalina hull is roughly a 3/8" (on average) thick polyester hull, so a some foam and a light layer of cloth, isn't going to cut it on these modified areas.
     
  11. Jetboy
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    Jetboy Senior Member

    For what you want, IMO buy a nice used corsair. Put a 25hp outboard on her, and I'd bet it'll sail and motor faster. It's just a much easier driven hull that doesn't need to plane. Even with a shorter stick to reduce forces on the rig it would still sail faster.

    that's what i'd do with the same $
     
  12. san juan 26
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    san juan 26 New Member

    The Corsair looks like fun, but my budget for this project
    is $2000 total, as I have an old 55 hp Evinrude. (maybe I could swap it out for an old 25 hp Mercury, pull start, at 115 lbs.) I have done a lot a work
    with multi density layered polyurethane foam, so the conversion seems simple. I took some white water-color to this photo just to get an idea of a hull shape.
     

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  13. Jetboy
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    Jetboy Senior Member

    I see. I had assumed a new OB at $7500 and boat for say $5,000 plus another $2-3000 in glass work. By the time you're that far, a used corsair at $20ish isn't too far off. Especially if you consider resale value.

    But if you can find a cheap boat and have an outboard - give it a try. Just wear your life jacket and make sure you're w/in swimming distance of shore.

    I think you're really going to struggle to get a keelboat on a plane with 50hp. Then again i have a Venture 17, which is a semi-planing hull and I'd bet a 10hp would plane it, although I'm certain the boat wouldn't hold up to much use that way.
     

  14. msmagoo
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    msmagoo New Member

    Hi
    I have a catalina 22- - if yoy have it already - give it to someone else, or put a wing keel on it. the swing keel bolts will not take it and you will loose your keel in the heavy use. I hate to sail her in heave waves 15 / 20 you will be hicked over or have your teeth rattled out of your face banging into the waves, and have all the joy of sailing gone! get a Oday water balast it can be used as a sail boat and a speed boat, happy sailing
    msmagoo
     
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